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#1539 - 03/23/08 07:39 PM
Racial Weaknesses
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Minstrel
journeyman
Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 90
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I think some great races have been rendered quite unplayable (especially at upper levels) by racial weaknesses to damage types.
For example, nereid. That's a race that is very, very, very evocative and stylish and would be great to play. However, it has a weakness to fire, which means very popular damage types like fire, elementalist electricity and elementalist plasma will do immensely more damage. Nothing about the race remotely evens out such a drawback.
There should be racial drawbacks, but a "Be ready to lose all high-level combats with anyone sensible to adjust to your race" is way extreme. Upper-level combat is almost entirely determined by critical hits, and weaknesses to damage types basically enhance critical hits against you in that damage type.
Various other races have this problem...sword-demon, seraph, dauthi. It makes them basically sucker races, played by people too inexperienced to understand how consequential the drawback is or people who are purposely giving up on upper-level combat.
It would be nice if these races were re-examined and maybe adjusted such that the weaknesses to a damage type are removed and replaced with some other, less extreme drawback.
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#1562 - 03/24/08 03:23 PM
Re: Racial Weaknesses
[Re: Minstrel]
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Cerberus
addict
Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
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I also really like the idea of the 'weakness' aspect of other races changed into something more along the lines of the vulnerability, but using the damage type and not the metal to determine how much damage might be added. I think the amount of damage added of course needs to be looked at in great detail, but it's better than increasing the critting ability as much as the weaknesses do.
Without having tested, or even looked at the code, I can assure you that vulnerabilities are more scalable and controllable than the damage-type specific weaknesses we currently use for races. I would like other ideas to look at though, if there are any. (Minstrel has notably left out potential "less extreme drawbacks")
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#1566 - 03/24/08 04:58 PM
Re: Racial Weaknesses
[Re: Cerberus]
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Minstrel
journeyman
Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 90
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I don't think that all racial weaknesses should be changed (for instance, a forest-troll should burn heartily and not merely take more damage)
Just like your example in a past thread about castle entrances that are too small for any race to enter except small/tiny races being "realistic but spoiling the fun," I would say the same about your point about forest-trolls. Yes, most conceptions of trolls include a severe weakness to fire. But if you make them "burn heartily" in this game, you make them quite useless to play if you want to be at all viable in high level combat. "Realism" is great until it becomes counterproductive to a fun game.
I am not interested in making these damage type dependant rather than material specific
How would material vulnerabilities work, exactly? For example, if you are vulnerable to mithril weapons, will you take more damage from the entire weapon or will the effect of the mithril just be upped or what?
(Minstrel has notably left out potential "less extreme drawbacks")
Why is that notable? Unless you have ideas for everything, you can have ideas for nothing? I think removing or diminishing something that makes a lot of races unplayable is a good idea. Is that an inexpressable idea unless I have already figured out what should replace it (if anything...after all, we already have other drawbacks plus xp mods that can be used to re-balance the races)?
I find that a baffling attitude, to be honest. Putting forth the idea will hopefully lead to more discussion, some of which might be ideas for replacements. And certainly if I think of anything, I'll be sure to mention it.
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#1589 - 03/25/08 09:30 PM
Re: Racial Weaknesses
[Re: Madoc]
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Cerberus
addict
Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
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I meant no offense by claiming the omission notable. In fact I found it noteworthy for exactly the reason you stated - it opens the door to ideas for how to better handle weaknesses in races. My apologies if that was unclear.
As far as how vulnerability would work, without looking at the existing code I can't be sure. I would imagine all damage from a weapon of the type in question would be amplified though. I'm on vacation this week, but I'll be sure to look at it as soon as I have access to my laptop again on Friday.
The racial balance formula is a big issue that needs review, and if Madoc sticks around I'm sure he and I will tackle it soon.
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