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#2309 - 11/30/08 03:50 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Rancid]
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Kim
enthusiast
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
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Rancid, I'd answer what you say but you are very incoherent, and don't seem to understand the issues. But here goes.
"Fifth Observation: Frankly, there were so many people making an argument that MA gave way more crits and therefore more experience."
You don't seem to be able to differentiate between crtits and hits, and you don't seem to understand what being able to get "With a degree.." hits on anything with 9 attacks/round meant before combat changes.
"Second Observation: If there was a problem in combat it is obvious that axes giving 3x the crits compared to knifes, swords and blunt weapons is a ridiculous balance problem."
It's not only axe, no. About 2x to that of knife, which is the worst case. Some other weapon types are more crit-friendly than axe too.
"No offense to Miki, but a month or two before this the development cost of block was changed from something like 10 to 6.. He raised hell for not getting a reimbursement; pkilling people and got either a reincarnation or at the minimal restored added devs with the new cost in mind."
Idiot. The reimb was for BLACKSMITH which had it's dev cost changed due to the tinker changes. I got the devs back for that one. Block wasn't affected at all. Where you get that idea? It's not been lowered in cost, so duh.
And my PK was due to something else. Madoc decided to have fun and remove my ability to gain XP, so I decided to kill some random people. Get yer facts straight.
Since Rancid is backtracking.. Funny. I will address this too, then, and keep his more insane quotes up above for anyways:
"5) Forced reincs for players who have benefited and IMO knowingly abused the broken system. Giving them 1/3 the combat levels which is what everyone else who has fairly played the game have been getting."
Well, that would be MA users. Before the changes, it was the sole broken skill. (9 attacks/round, all H&E). Before the combat changes all weapons types were equal, apart from that which everybody knew and could read in the help files about dev cost, and some tiny things like affecting parry slightly, or rapier giving hand protection.
Funny now how you think it is axe is best and everything else crap. It isn't. Axe isn't superior to every other type. This is mainly an issue with knifes being nerfed.
Edited by Kim (11/30/08 04:09 PM)
Edit Reason: Rancid backtracking.
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#2310 - 11/30/08 04:09 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Kim]
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Cerberus
addict
Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
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Thank you all for your poignant responses. I have enjoyed reading them and am looking forward to further posts. Every effort is being made to address the issues that have been raised.
The dev costs of weapon skills were supposed to be changed at the time combat changed, but I failed to follow through and make that change. We are re-evaluating the dev cost and crit potential of weapons and will have a new formula soon.
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#2314 - 12/01/08 02:53 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: garin]
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Onslaught
stranger
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 21
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There's lots of accusations going back and forth.
I think many people are making many good points, but here's some considerations.
Maligant is upset because he's been reemed (specifically by people like octavian and miki) about how unfair his levels are due to martial arts being such a good skill in the past. He's rightfully Irate, because it turns out axes (and apparently things other than knives) were equally ridiculously broken and no one said a word.
Now did Oct and Miki know of this issue Did they suddenly decide to bring it into the light because dagmar had the chance to train axes? Who knows. Miki posted this in the first place, so he was either being very honest, or after hitting level 52 combat, very deceiptful this whole time. The judgement is for individuals to make on their own.
The real issue is, even if it's just knives that are so ridiculously underpowered (with never an indication to anyone that that was going to happen) the problem is a majority of the mud, in fact, uses knife. Most because they're forced to, mages enchanters etc etc, and many because there was no reason not to, since most the weapons crafted were knives....most tinkers used knives, my fighter chose knife for the same reason.
What's really really depressing about this ridiculously obvious problem (whoever coded this honestly should never be allowed to touch live code again lol) is that you can easily look back t the last 6 months and unfortunately miki will take the brutn of this because he's just so big (partially as a result of this problem) but there's others who've benefited too.
Some people are claiming 50-70% more exp others are 100-150%, but the fact is, there's a huge exp gap even with completely identical characters since this has been implemented, and an even bigger PVP gap for those using (axe, or etc) not knife.
It is utterly impossible to compete against someone who can single wield a sword, take their block to 300 (because they can spam more than a quad wielding thranx crit-wise single wielding) and have no penalties whatsoever, nor require dual and offhand.
It's no mystery to anyone now why certain people were completely dominating the pvp scene even aside from resist stun.
Is this their fault? No....not unless they knew about it and intentionally said nothing.
The bottom line is, we'd simply like to see it fixed. Is there anyone here that thinks simply putting all weapons to 1 crit per swing is not the best solution? The game operated with that function for years and years and it seems pretty straight forward.
Regardless, as for me, I don't really care who earned what exp as far as getting this fixed, or who deserves what.
But if it's not going to be fixed, and balanced, I definitely think a wield-only reinc is in order.
Honestly most people I have talked to think a p-wipe is the more realistic solution, if not now then when? Given how many people have leveled (weather unfairly in certain people's viewpoints or not) with MA, and nowt with the crit issue, why are we so affraid of p-wipes? eveyr 6-8 years a p-wipe certainly can't hurt.
shrug...i just hope this is fixed soon, as if nothing else as you can see from the posts here, it's a morale issue.
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#2316 - 12/01/08 03:50 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Cerberus]
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Kim
enthusiast
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
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"It is utterly impossible to compete against someone who can single wield a sword, take their block to 300 (because they can spam more than a quad wielding thranx crit-wise single wielding) and have no penalties whatsoever, nor require dual and offhand.
It's no mystery to anyone now why certain people were completely dominating the pvp scene even aside from resist stun."
Well, there's been *no* big PKs since the change (except Onslaught VS Granite, both knife users), which is in itself sad. So not sure what this comment is about. It is a guess about something which hasn't even been tested.
"What's really really depressing about this ridiculously obvious problem (whoever coded this honestly should never be allowed to touch live code again lol) is that you can easily look back t the last 6 months and unfortunately miki will take the brutn of this because he's just so big (partially as a result of this problem) but there's others who've benefited too. "
Well, I was 46 C before this change, which is fairly huge as most people count it. So, I got 46 C-levels before anything changed at all :P.
"The combat changes in June caused axe to become the weapon du jour. That no one said anything for the past 4 or 5 months is troubling, to be sure."
Part of that is because nobody tested it properly. I was able to see it first hand due to unhiatusing. But all other complaints before had an obvious agenda to them along the lines of "sprites too powerful", which as we know isn't part of the problem at all...
"One crit per hit was examined and ultimately rejected because it doesn't provide any give-and-take for choosing which weapon to wield."
As I already argued, and which you all failed to argue against... There are other types of benefits that can be used. Like some weapon utilising parry more, some weapon having a slight boost to to hit rate etc etc. That'd mean one would pick weapon depending on style, and not just doing a quick calculation about dev cost, crit power and spell boosts one gets.
"In addition, it heavily favors the 'pk style' weapon in the current experience gain environment - so much so that there is no reason to seek out anything but a single crit type on a weapon."
How? This seems like... I mean how? This question is mindblowing in that it seems like a HUGE non-sequitor, and lack of knowledge of how combat works. I'd like to answer but... I have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about. Because it is something that seems completely unrelated.
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#2318 - 12/01/08 03:59 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Muod]
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Onslaught
stranger
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 21
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I tend to agree muod, I personally think Miki discovered this because of his tinker.
But on the same token I am trying to explain why maligant is upset as well, it wasn't fair to gang up on him about MA just like vice versa.
And cerberus no one is laying any blame on you at all as far as I can see. I'm sure you could care less what I think but im sure I speak for everyone yer actually doing _something_ and that's really all that matters at this point.
As far as stacking 1 crit type, or people having nor eason to pick mace ove rknife or etc. I think like miki said ther'es many small thigns you could do with weps and wep skills that might make more sense.
When you talk about using physical damage, right now as the game stands, physical damage simply doesn't occur at all in pvp. And it would take some serious serious combat re-coding to change that and balance it. So whereas your intentions are probably good, _anY_ weapon with extra crits is going to continue to dominate for lon glon gtime.
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