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#2299 - 11/26/08 02:42 PM
Sound off
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Cerberus
addict
Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
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Is the game any better than when I signed on in January? Has anything been overlooked? Are you generally satisfied playing? Is there something missing that would really make it easy to bring new players in? What do we need more of? Are the areas interesting enough? Are the mobs too challenging?
In general, if you've got something to say please do say it! We're listening and always happy to make moves.
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#2302 - 11/28/08 07:52 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Kim]
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Onslaught
stranger
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 21
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Well miki just pointed me to this thread.
This explains _soooooo much_ about why certain people are spamming the holy hell single wielding while others dual and quad are doing less.
I mean jesus you guys realize the balance ipmlications this has had then since it was implemented? My head is spinning....who could have coded somethign so completely broke?
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#2303 - 11/28/08 07:55 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Onslaught]
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Onslaught
stranger
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 21
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Sorry, didn't mean to keep derailing your post cerb, you seem to be doing a good job. This revelation just fills in so many holes that some of us were like 'wtf this makes no sense' for the past few months tickling our minds. Miki was in a perfect position to finally realize why, though it should have been obvious to some of us.
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#2304 - 11/29/08 10:07 AM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Onslaught]
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Muod
member
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 148
Loc: MA/CA
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I thought that weapon costs were changed to reflect this, didn't realize they werent until discussing crit number per weapon type with miki.
though weapon types determining crits isn't ideal solution to resolve number of crits per round, it would be ok if costs were reflecting this as well. every class has option to several weapon types.
I do not know of a better way to have crits done, before was based on number of attacks you get a round, which really hurt people without haste.
but this is beside the point really, I enjoy new combat mostly because its faster, i'm use to wow sadly, where things are a bit more quick moving. I wish magic was. Cycle is by far the worst thing ever, its boring, it makes people just hit a macro every 20 mins, no effort. and its boring as hell.
But I do believe we should of wiped with combat changes, they were hugely more impacting then I think anyone could of anticipated.
I would like to see more group/party oriented spells ie what you did with circle of life. try to encourge party play, maybe even have party exp bonuses, in same room as party members get a 10% bonus? maybe even if your a pure mage, you get 1% magic exp bonus. just thought to encourge people to play together.
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#2305 - 11/29/08 02:51 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Muod]
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Kim
enthusiast
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
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"I do not know of a better way to have crits done, before was based on number of attacks you get a round, which really hurt people without haste."
A random factor, or 1 per hit.
"but this is beside the point really, I enjoy new combat mostly because its faster, i'm use to wow sadly, where things are a bit more quick moving."
Faster for.. who? Hmmm. Miki gets slightly more XP now. Kyri gets less. Kyri also kills considerably slower than before, It's a bit of a chore. It's a bit faster for non-haste guilds, I guess. Though most non-haste guilds have two skills, knife and staff. Knife being about as slow/fast as before for non-haste guilds (Less than 1.5 crits / hit on average, really). Anybody who had haste and used knife is slower now.
And of course, using dev cost to reflect the crittiness of a weapon type has a huge gaping flaw in it. "Ok, so that skill costs more.. but crits more and hence gives more XP". The dev cost difference would have to be huge to reflect it. Like 3 for knife and 10 for axe. There would need to be serious band-aiding done to make it work, and it would be hugely inelegant and ad-hoc.
Seriously. For an axe-user, combat wasn't changed. But using a knife was fairly o_O. Big nerf.
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#2306 - 11/30/08 11:27 AM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Kim]
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Onslaught
stranger
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 21
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*sigh* good point miki good points rather
I just can't imagine a way, with darke's combat that you could ever balance getting 2-3 crits against one and compensating by adding some wield to the guy getting 1. As miki pointed out the exp differnetial alone would probably offset anything other than a gapingly ridiculous dev cost difference at high levels, and that doesn't even take into account trying to balance 'hader fewer crits' against softer more crits in darke's armour system.
This totally explains why some people were getting such absurd experience *sigh*....
bleh......so complicated but holy mother of God. Can we just p-wipe now? Does everyone not see just how broke and crazy this was for those using it the past x months?
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#2307 - 11/30/08 01:25 PM
Re: Sound off
[Re: Cerberus]
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Rancid
newbie
Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 49
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A few prime examples of the exceptionally good changes that have been going on. Apologies to the one's I will certainly leave out. Also, I know there are more negatives than positives; however, I think there is hope with a bit of maturity which may or may not be possible at this time.
First Observation: Severs and cripples giving the appropriate experience gain for the amount of serious damage that they obviously do. Before they were giving no experience and these are massively damaging caliber of attacks. I would add experience for the mortal blow thing unless this is just an indication of when a player has died before the MUD/OS driver has detected the death or whatever.
Second Observation: Finally, light crit table being fixed. Holy Jesus. Is that a jelly donut! It has been broken since lets see at least when I started playing in 1996. All I can say is wow. It is a nice crit table and I like it a whole lot. I still think Aether should be revamped and put back in with some of the obvious problems fixed. Also, maybe darkness can be fixed as a complete table. I just want to say how truly impressed I am with the work on the light table. It is very nice work and clean which you dont see a lot from some less proficient coders which have plagued DM in the past:) (although they had good intentions)
Third Observation: There is someone actually coding for the benifit of DM. Fixing broken things as you come to them is great.
Fourth Observation: Shout out to Thoin. Kudos to you for your continued effort on behalf of the monks. Perhaps one day I can use MA again.
These are some prime examples of how poorly the recent changes were designed, dictated and implemented.
First Observation: My MA fighter Dagmar. MA was considerably less powerful for pvp at higher levels than using a weapon at same or even lower levels; however, some still said it was an advantage to not have to repair weapons. I have used both and this is a ridiculous posture posed by those who have not thoroughly used both. Specially considering fighters get blacksmithing and can repair weapons. A year worth of developing this character was rendered useless then I was told that the admin/coder who made the changes would not do reincarnations for those that used MA, who were affected the most even though their characters were basically unplayable. After several pleading requests for a reimbursement or reincarnation I was told, you; Cerebrus, would not do the reinc but that I could ask another admin. Disgusted I stopped playing for a few months. No offense to Miki, but a month or two before this the development cost of block was changed from something like 10 to 6. He raised hell for not getting a reimbursement; pkilling people and got either a reincarnation or at the minimal restored added devs with the new cost in mind. Granted that he IMO deserved a reinc or reimb of lost devs for the change but his character was far from unplayable and he was immediately given a reimbursement for his character. During this time tinkers were also given reincs for their newly added runes which was totally understandable and appropriate. Finally at the behest of some friends I came back and started playing again and was eventually given a same race and guild reinc which was completely appropriate. I would have prefered to stay an MA fighter if they had actually fixed the problems instead of hopelessly making things worse and totally ignoring the objections and observations of those who actually used MA and new it best.
Second Observation: If there was a problem in combat it is obvious that axes giving 3x the crits compared to knifes, swords and blunt weapons is a ridiculous balance problem. However, instead of looking for something that is truly a problem you go on a witch hunt after MA destroying it, not fixing it, and changing combat in a manner which quite frankly did not do what you claimed it's intention originaly was. Or at least my understanding was, it was intended to not make none hasted combat less tediously irritating. It is still tediously slow and boring however I will admit it is not as bad which is a plus. My point is instead of breaking MA because some people thought it was unfair something else should have been done and real problems like whatever code problem has caused players that have abused the 3x crit for axes problem to be fixed. Why not just make MA users use weapons instead of completely breaking them? I also heard the argument the MA gave to much experience yet the axe users were getting 3x the crits per round and that was never noticed?
Third Observation: How can players that deleted their characters roughly 4-6 months ago get a restore and a reincarnation? It seems outrageous it was so difficult to get a reincarnation for an obvious problem that you caused with MA users, then someone cries about it and gets a character they deleted months and months ago restored? This sets a dangerous precedent. If you have any concept of justice you can see where anyone that has deleted a character before for any reasonable reason should be given a restore. I am sure his was he didn't know that they were about to expand the hiatus system which IMO was a good reason to give a restore. The thing is I can't get is that it had been discussed for months there was going to be more hiatus slots and when I asked octavian why he had deleted it was that he trained wrong. Now he we be able to get that character fix he deleted his character over originally.
Forth Observation: It seems that you only take seriously peoples' points of view that back up your own. You should weigh them all out and see what the group view is. It is incredibly arrogant and naive for you to only listen to those people who back up your way of thinking.
Fifth Observation: Frankly, there were so many people making an argument that MA gave way more crits and therefore more experience. It is outrageous that it has turned out that the majority of these same people have now come around and said ohh, our bad Axes give 3x the crits per round of other weapons? I am sure this was just figured out now. These are the people whose band wagon you jumped on and rolled on down the street with. I have to point out the serious lack of judgement. I tested the two types of combat between axes and MA and saw relatively no difference; however, I was told that it had been tested and that it was hugely different. Turns out I was right and that I was treated as some ignorant voice. I can not quite voice the level of my disappointment enough.
All in all I hope this serves as a learning experience and a place to grow from.
Edited by Rancid (11/30/08 01:27 PM)
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