| Daniel |
| (stranger) |
| 12/19/07 05:05 PM |
Crafted Items Auction House
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Would we like to have an auction house where items can be placed for sale by players?
Its one thing to have a work order book at the tinkers and enchanters guild, posting prices and such. But, a far nicer alternative would be to have actual items posted.
Lets say some tinker plays during a time when there are only like 5 people online, He crafts this magnificent sword but 1) can never get a chanter to chant it cause they are all offline or 2) cant sell it cause A) No one online wants it B) players of other time zones don't even know he can make good stuff.
For whatever the reason... equipment thats finished is lying around.
Then Joe Shmoe comes along to the Auction house and "considers" a weapon in the auctioneer's listing and sees the exact runes on the sword with chants (yeah, some detect magic specialist come along and appraised it perfectly and certified each weapons buffs).
I like it, I buy it, I never even met the tinker.
Or, a Chanter buys it, spices it up and reposts it.
I like it, I buy it, never even met the tinker and chanter.
| **DONOTDELETE** |
| () |
| 12/20/07 08:44 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Well, good idea...
But actually, the only thing is needed - "safe" items transfer btw customer and traders.
Could we just rent "safe cell" with numeric-code lock at the bank and put stuff inside.
Now put ingots there and money and mail tinker the code.
Tinker opens cell, does his work and puts stuff back.
Mail code to chanter to allow him to enchant gears.
At the end you opened cell and found it ... empty - someone robed me! :-P. Well, just kidding, normally, you should find your order done inside.
Regards,
-guinness
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 12/20/07 10:42 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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In order for a system like that to work it has to be non-lootable. If even one person can loot the AH or safes nobody will ever use them.
I do like the idea of player-run stores. Maybe HMs could rent space in one of the cities and hock their wares.
| **DONOTDELETE** |
| () |
| 12/20/07 11:04 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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I think it is OK for these safes to be off-limits for thiefs. Given small number of players at the moment it is a reasonable compromise enabling players to get decent gear.
Shadowraith
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| (member) |
| 12/20/07 01:50 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Sorry, for things to be safe from stealing or looting means someone could whack you, take your stuff, and then put it somewhere you cant get it back due to code, nto due to difficulty.
Might as well turn save on ghost back on.
| Kim |
| (enthusiast) |
| 12/20/07 01:59 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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How about this... You volunteer something to auction.. The auctioner gets the data... and then the auction starts..
When the auction is done, the auctioner sends you a mud mail saying to give you item XXX for transfer... after you do, the one who bought it has 48 hours to get it, or the auctioner returns it to you.
That way you can't really keep it safe, more than for 48 hours.
| Daniel |
| (stranger) |
| 12/20/07 04:22 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Okef will hold your weapon for you if you run off while he is repairing it right?
An NPC auctioneer could hold sold items and upon your entrace he shoves your purchased wares, or expired sales, right back at you.
Perhaps sold goods, or expired auctions while they are being held by the auctioneer could be nipped by thieves. So any sellers who are lax enough to put something up for auction and not pick it up promptly would be at risk of loss.
This would require a time limit to auctions.
As for the safe idea, like lock box idea. I guess its pretty good idea in and of itself but its not the same functionality as an auction house. You would still have to have close contact with tinker/chanter which might be a problem for you if you dont know them. How would you pass payment along through the lock box idea?
And in fairness to what SW said, these lock boxes would have to be lootable so would we have a lock box system inside a bank as large and expansive as an Inn (any smaller and its fish bait for every passing thief), with many rooms? This idea approximates Inn rooms with a controlled entry for guests. Could just put a combo lock on Inn room doors. (not a bad idea either, lets quit paying 2 mcgrail for keys)
| **DONOTDELETE** |
| () |
| 12/21/07 07:18 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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About close contact with traders...
Usually, they put their prices at Akkad tower allowing others to know who to ask for crafting. If they would to work in private you probably won't get them work at auction as well.
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 12/21/07 08:23 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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It wouldn't be a fool proof 'safe' to put stuff in. It would basically be a player rune store that would be impossible to rob, much like mob-run stores are impossible to rob.
If stores WERE possible to rob nobody would ever buy things, they'd just loot them. In fact I can remember when a certain arch-mage had trans runes into every store's store room and would just go every hour or so and clean them up.
I would never use a player-run store if I could loot it, and would never try and sell anything if it could be looted. Something like that HAS to be loot-proof.
I don't like the idea of a 'safe' where you can STORE things and be safe. But I like the idea of being able to sell things safely.
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Shadowraith
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| (member) |
| 12/21/07 09:46 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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if you can store things unlootable, then its the same thing, whether you call it a shop or a safe. people would use it to store their own belongings
| Muod |
| (member) |
| 12/21/07 11:32 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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well if you had to put a deposit up to auction something and if the item didnt sell then you would loose the deposit, and length you want item up for sale determines the amount. hell could even make it if you decide to auction something longer then a week and it doesn't sell, the auction company keeps it then puts it in there own shop. but personally i'd rather see player run shops then an auction house.
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 12/21/07 01:00 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Good idea Muod.
Put an item up for auction with a starting bit of 2000 mcgrail and a "buyout" of 40k. You'd have to in this case put up a deposit of say 1k (I'd make the deposit 1k or 20% of the starting bid, whichever is greater) and if your items sells the AH could keep the deposit or 5% of the selling price. Whichever is greater.
Would be able to be able to sell 'sets' of equipment, say a suit of armour, or a couple of weapons.
One AH would be able to be a player-run store for all players.. and could be a 1 stop shop for ingots, weapons and armour.
Of course people could still buy direct from tink-chanter.
| Daniel |
| (stranger) |
| 01/15/08 11:20 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Originally Posted By: Guinness
Usually, they put their prices at Akkad tower allowing others to know who to ask for crafting...
True, but I personally figure that tower board has ancient posts. Majority of the time that I check those work logs at enchanter and tinker guilds I find that I was inactive long enough that some tinker came along, mastered some forging and some runes did some business and then went inactive, all happening during my inactivity.
Then I come back and need to build up again. So I ask around who to go to.
Thats my general approach to getting tinked goods. Always ask around.
Additional idea for the auction house idea. The NPC auctioneers would disclose to you in full detail the magical properties of the equipment. I can then take it on their authority and not have to be ripped off by a clever chanter who tells me they put *6 TA when in truth its only *3.
The added assurance of "certified" equipment would certainly bring us non-magic-detecting folks some nice peice of mind.
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Cerberus
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| (addict) |
| 01/15/08 11:49 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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I absolutely hate in all ways the idea PCs would get the assurances of NPCs on magic quality to a level PCs can't access.
Other than that though it sounds like a specialized player store, which I think could be fun.
| carmy |
| (member) |
| 01/15/08 03:51 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Nod, the NPC detecting magical properties opens the auction house to loads of abuse of all kinds.
I think the NPC could 'show' a player the item, and if the player had detect magic, would be able to see what was on it that way.
I don't think there should really be an advantage to shopping at the auctioneer other than convenience.
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 01/17/08 11:23 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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I think it all comes back to the idea of a player-run store.
My ideal store would be similar to a shopkeeper store, without trade lore factoring into the pricing and without customers being able to sell things (although this might be an interesting idea to play with).
I think perhaps a description of the item would be good, one that the selling player puts up. They could list a sword as "mabril with *6 tw and 3 greater ess blade plasma locks".
Perhaps the person can be 'shown' it by the mob with 100% detect magic but the rest of the properties (power levels, etc) should be left a mystery.
If the shop owner is dishonest, news will spread quick and nobody will buy from their store.
I would imagine that setting up a store would not be cheap and certainly not worth buying to rip one or two people off.
| Madoc |
| (newbie) |
| 04/03/08 06:35 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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The solution I came up with and half coded, was a shopkeeper mob that ran from a safe that had to be placed in a save room. You put the items you want to sell in the safe. Money is deposited in the safe. Gives the player complete control of what's on sale, yet its still lootable if you can get to the safe within the players castle. Built a generic 'store' and mob for it, got the safe mostly done, just needs a bit more work/polish. Was kind of sidetracked because someon had the damn good idea of being able to put these shoppies in castles instead of having shop spots in major citys like I was thinking.
| carmy |
| (member) |
| 04/04/08 07:34 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Why would anyone want to sell things out of their castle?
| Madoc |
| (newbie) |
| 04/04/08 05:27 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Well there would be 2 options, the shopkeeper would be located either in a city, or in a castle, castle based shopies would mostly be for people with 'open' castles. IE gaterunes in the foyer are a great way to deter customers;)
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Shadowraith
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| (member) |
| 04/07/08 06:53 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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If you still want to do an auction system, the change I made that allowed sending gold via mudmail was a forerunner test for sending items as well.
The system would work for that so that a daemon could send the won item via mail, no need for physical location of items, unless you want auctioning items to be stealable, in which case it wouldnt be used most likely.
Now you could make folks go to the auction house to drop off and pick up, setting them up for ambushes if they hang out in there perusing things.
| Rancid |
| (newbie) |
| 04/18/08 04:00 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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The idea of an auction house sounds super cool. I like the idea of the items being in a castle and the mob going to said castle and retrieving the item. This allows the item to be susceptible to theft yet still allows the idea of auctioning items as long as one wants. That is the whole reason to having the shopkeeper capable of going to the castle. I think it would be prudent to have this auctioneer un-able to get a scry on. That way people wouldst try to teleport to the auctioneer after one purchases an item and allowing that person to loot the auctioning person's castle/inn/treasury.
| **DONOTDELETE** |
| () |
| 04/18/08 07:26 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Would not it make looting too easy? One bids and the other one waits outside and kills the mob bringing items?
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/20/08 08:12 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Making the items stealable during auctionbrings up many problems.
1. Nobody will ever auction anything. Ever. Easier to spam bid and keep it in a random inn room.
2. Programming a mob to move around, get into any castle, avoid runes and pets, be scryproof, be able to pick up a specific item, realistically not be followable or scryable or killabe would make it by far the most complex mob ever written to do the same job that a saveroom can do.
I'm not sure why everybody is making a big deal over an item not being lootable for a few days while being sold. I'll give a few examples of things that are at least temporarily unlootable/killable.
1. Items on a person while they are logged out. When this started people claimed if was the end. Everybody would lift their entire castles as they logged out and be unlootable.
2. Pets in an undead dimension.
3. Money in the bank.
If we make a lootable auctionhouse it would have the same effect as having everybody save room having a locked door to TS. Even if said door took a thief 4 hours to pick you can bet at least a few people would be logging in naked and nobody would use that features. Likewise if the bank was lootable why would anybody use it?
The bank charges a fee for security, the auctionhouse or store could do the same.
| Kim |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/21/08 12:03 AM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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"1. Items on a person while they are logged out. When this started people claimed if was the end. Everybody would lift their entire castles as they logged out and be unlootable."
Well, back then, everything on you saved, including bags. Dendlai and Silk carried half a dozen sets of armour or so on them mot of the time. So not quite the situation we have now.
| Madoc |
| (newbie) |
| 04/23/08 09:24 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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I wasnt thinking the shoppie retrive the item thats what magical little teleporting imps are for.
Chest has to be in a saveroom, shopkeeper sells whatevers in chest, money goes to chest.
Shoppie can be in a city while the chest is in a castle, or shoppie and chest can be in the same castle, or completly different castles. Or an inn room in a back ally in kuril for all I care, just has to be a save room
People won't use it if its lootable - I disagree, people might not post huge inventories of stuff at a time, so as not to become a target. But I think it would be used, yes/no?
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/24/08 05:13 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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If the chest was in a castle it probably would be used, I agree. It is just as safe as if in a castle.
If it was for example though past 1 locked door in akkad where anybody can can say kill a level 40 guard and pick a door can just empty it out.. nobody will use it.
| carmy |
| (member) |
| 04/24/08 05:22 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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If the location of the chest in unknown, I think you'd actually have to stumble upon it to loot it. It could be in an inn room, mine or castle. Odds are, there is much more effort into breaking into these things to find it than the payoff would be, at least in my opinion.
| Charon |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/24/08 05:36 PM |
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Re: Crafted Items Auction House
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Exactly. My main objection would be if it was set up like the current shops are.
Room A -> Room B
Room A is where the shopkeeper stands, and room B is where the loot is. If the loot is always in Room B, there is no searching around. Once someboody can get into Room B they pretty much can just repeatedly loot the same room over and over again to rob the store.
If the chest can be placed anywhere, say in the seller's castle or mine or inn room. I have no objections to it being lootable. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
"I have an objection to the contents of a store/auction being in a stationary location known by all that is not movable and is also lootable by a semi-skilled player".