12/13/07 11:45 AM
Crafting Guild

One of the major changes that is about to start to go in is the creation of Crafting Guild.

This will replace the idea of the polymath guild and it will be a combination of the Tinker Guild and the Enchanter Guild but with no combat options.

The thought process is this...

Everyone will be able to join the Crafting guild and craft if they want to, this is in addition to their normal guild, however to keep it from creating an environment where noone needs anyone else, the following changes will be going in.

CMST - T will be Trade level and have its own xp and devs. This is so that some guild able to get magic or special xp quickly couldnt then turn it around and use it in the Crafter guild.

LT - Long Term will return to being No Move events. This is so that if you want to craft, you must be dedicated to it. Noone is forced to craft. However getting to the point where you have a high crafting level will take time and dedication.

Exp - LT experience will remain what it is now. Yes this will mean a very very slow levelling rate. But we want to start that way so that we can bump up if needed. Starting high and then taking away causes a lot more heartache.

Bear in mind this will also allow us to add other crafting skills in the future to make other new things to fully flesh out the crafting system, ie Carpenter, Mason, etc.

Below is the proposed breakdown of skills and spells. We do know yet if we will make people choose Armorer or Weaponsmith as it might not be necessary since the time it will take to advance them both.
detect magic                    
(s) prepare spell
(s) lock enchantment 
(s) dispel rune
(s) activate powerstone
(s) poison rune
(s) exploding rune
(s) healing rune
(s) gate rune
(s) summon rune
(s) transport rune
(s) delay rune
(s) preserve rune
(s) enchanter mark
(s) transport beacon 
(s) fashion dragon engine 
(s) fashion golem 
(s) fashion statue 
(s) improve dragon engine
(s) improve golem
(s) improve statue
(s) warding rune
(s) locked rune
decorative carvings 
install lock
skin corpse 
trade lore
vaporize metal
install trap

Weapons                    Armour
=========================  =======================
(s) icy weapon             (s) minor fortification
(s) flame blade            (s) major fortification 
(s) minor puissance        (s) true armour 
(s) major puissance        leather craft - armour making skill
(s) minor accuracy         inscribe malsa bonnes
(s) major accuracy         inscribe aldara zet 
(s) true weapon            inscribe malsa sen zora
inscribe xen mora          forge armour
inscribe malsa xen         inscribe malsa lit
inscribe zalm lit          inscribe malsa impalor
inscribe malsa koren       inscribe malsa strikas
inscribe harah lit         inscribe malsa crushor
carpentry                  inscribe malsa plasmar
forge weapon               inscribe malsa cuttar
inscribe nica bonnes       inscribe malsa impactra
inscribe harah xen         inscribe malsa frosor
balance weapon             inscribe malsa firas
inscribe xen frosor        inscribe malsa stresor
inscribe xen firas

12/13/07 11:56 AM
Re: Crafting Guild

"Exp - LT experience will remain what it is now. Yes this will mean a very very slow levelling rate. But we want to start that way so that we can bump up if needed. Starting high and then taking away causes a lot more heartache."

The difference in the XP you get from spells (enchanter things) and skills (tinker skills) is *huge*. increasing the enchanter LT XP 6x will make it about equal.

12/13/07 11:57 AM
Re: Crafting Guild

It wont be tinker and enchanter anymore, just Crafter, only one pool of exp/devs

But yeah, we need to look at the rate the exp comes in for the skills vice the spells for equal effort/time.

12/13/07 12:09 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

At first glance this seems very intriging. There are a few complications that will have to be worked out but I think it can be done very well.

Enchanter stuff is easy to change, since no other guilds get enchantment as a skill. The skills like detect magic will have to be changed.

One complication I can think of, that shouldn't be too hard to fix is that fighters currently level s with balance weapon, but prior to level 12, generally use decorative carvings. We'll need to give them something in s to be able to get up to balance.

Not a huge issue but might have a few tiny kinks like that to work out.

Overall though, I must say I'm optimistic about it.

12/13/07 12:12 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

Oh, and energy manipulation is going to be erased! No more chanter shields!

Oh a second note. The only conceptual problem that I have is the idea of fighters and thieves casting spells. Seems wrong. Also the idea of thieves also having the ability to dispel runes doesn't seem right.

12/13/07 12:36 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

But remember, it all goes into T of CMST, not in M or S, and we are goign to look at dispel rune. Maybe remove it since its not technically crafting something

12/13/07 12:38 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

Aether barrier should be moved from AMs to the crafter guild, probably to under enchantment. It's so similar to runes and install lock and vaporize metal in that it's just anotehr castle improvement/defense.

Elemental mist (does what vaporize metal does) might as well be removed.

Bless weapon and armour might stay with the Rislans. they are religious things and should be cleric, not crafter.

Bags of holding I have no real opinion on one way or the other.

Thieves getting dispel magic is a bit problematic. I'm not sure I'm in favour of everybody being able to get dispel. Maybe make it not crafter and give it as a spell to a few more guilds besides Arch-mages. It would make sense for elementalists and necromancers, so you have the pick of more than one guild as a looting partner (before it was enchanter or AM, now it might just be AM unless more guilds get it).

12/13/07 12:42 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

Nod.. That's my point. All of the fighter s skills they can use to xp S on would be removed from S and put into T. Making them virtually impossible to level S.

It isn't a showstopper though, just something needs to be worked out for them.

Perhaps another guild (elementalists?) could gain a remove rune spell.

"Using the power of the elements you begin to erode away the magical rune"... type thing.

Edit: Damn Kim.. beating me to the punch on the dispel rune idea...

12/13/07 12:48 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

balance wepaon is in the list... That's not good \:\)

12/13/07 12:50 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

thieves already have a dispel skill. It sucks mind you, but it exists.

I think balance weapon needs to be pulled from that list... can you imagine Mr. 300 wield CL with 200 balance weapon? Heaven help us.

12/13/07 01:17 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

Agreed. Balance weapon should stay fighter only.

12/13/07 01:58 PM
Re: Crafting Guild


12/13/07 02:10 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

well i would say fighters can loose S all together, I would redo fighter guild entirely and change the way they are in combat, give them new skills which could better customize a fighter, give them the ability to do body block for people but have it always work, make it a new skill. I would like to see something like weapon specialization/focus from dnd for fighters, even a cleave/great cleave skill would be great. they already have an enhance critical skill. what about combining all the other skills which arn't used much, combat awareness, drunken fighter, those type of skills into one over arching skill. it would let them be able to train it and not have to weight the price they are paying

I think the chanter runes should become LT and no need for perm rune spell, you cast a rune and say takes an hour and its perm when done. chanter shields are not needed, they can be tossed out entirely, no guild really fits to have them as is. personally i would make sure any skill/spell the crafting guild gets is a long term.

Personally i really like the idea of having the crafting guild guild. I would not move aether barrier from AMs just doesn't seem like a craft but thats my opinion. I would combine the mist type spells that elems/tinkers/necros get into one and place it to the crafting guild.

12/13/07 02:11 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

It is possible to train special as a fighter by useing survey. At 48% i got 1170 exp and that was only with 1% trained and a 47% bonus from world lore.

12/13/07 02:52 PM
Re: Crafting Guild

 Originally Posted By: Muod
I think the chanter runes should become LT and no need for perm rune spell, you cast a rune and say takes an hour and its perm when done.

I agree with this. One of my main concerns with everybody having runes is that it would certainly lead to newbie areas being full of runes, which I think is terrible. If it took 20 minutes to make a rune, people wouldn't be able to (since you can only have a perm room in a save room.. which I hope remains true!).

12/14/07 02:35 AM
Re: Crafting Guild

First of all. I don't think we should discuss about how much XP we should put into crafting skills/spells. This issue should be calculated well before Crafting guild in. Otherwise, it will not fit its purpose.

In any calculation should be variables and constants :). So, the primary constant is which skills/spells should be in Crafting guild.

Suppose, one spent years and trained almost everything in crafting. So, with current list he will be able to rule MUD alone. I DO NOT think this was an original idea of that guild.

Let think on it in this way:

Those skills are in list with category (t - trade... why not crafting? \:\) )

1.Craft armour - forge amour from ingots, or fashion from leather
2.Craft weapon - forge weapon from ingots, or use carpentry
3.Make potions - brew potions
4.Scribe runes - inscribe runes armour/weapon, and at the rooms
5.Make enchantment - forts, puissance, accuracy, light
6,7,8...Common skills: detect magic, mark, survey

If ice and flame weapon would be allowed in 5. then corrupt, bless, vampiric should be there as well. And I would to see poison, singing, acid chant types too.

TW and TA shouldn't be in this guild. As well as dispel rune, pick/install lock, install trap, balance (because it adds nothing to wield % but equals puissance+accuracy).
As an option they should be very high level, and can't be allowed without specialization: Weaponsmith, Armour, Rogue...

To make things "harder" we may have some prereqs to complete crafting.
For example, to enchant weapon with fire you should stay at the forge, hold weapon and cast any "fire" spell at it. So, guild with no spells couldn't do enchants.
But this way means a lot of changes with primary skills, beacuse it will be hard to make all prereqs balanced now.


12/14/07 07:18 AM
Re: Crafting Guild

Locking. This will not happen at his time I believe. There might be a craft guild, but we need to resolve whether or not there will be a pwipe first.