Who's Online
0 registered and 4 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
Mog, GreenGems, Minzuki, evaker, juffsion
83 Registered Users
Top Posters
608
Cerberus
368
Charon
209
MacTORG
204
Kim
164
carmy
148
Muod
106
Shadowraith
89
Minstrel
88
sabu
49
Rancid
Recent Topics
Page all of 2 12>
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#2034 - 06/05/08 07:13 PM Exp Display Messaging
Candanuca Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 3
In regards to the recent change about exp messaging taken away I would like to say a few things.

First I believe it is very newbie friendly and that seems to be the focus of a lot of changes lately such as HMs not being HMs on the who list. The messages give people a great sense of what they are getting for which spells and especially how effective their weapons are in combat. It can be hard to gauge this otherwise.

I also understand that it can be very annoying especially in combat or for doing long terms for the same exp we have memorized anyway.

This is why I would suggest that it become part of setenv and have the default be on so that new players can know how they are gaining exp, and old players can turn it off when they become annoyed with it. As a variable setting it can also be turned on and off allowing people to check for a period of time how much exp they are getting.

Top
#2035 - 06/05/08 07:24 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Candanuca]
Muod Offline
member
*****

Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 148
Loc: MA/CA
Personally I feel that adding more and more numbers to the game remove the illusion that the game is trying to create. As for the numbers part, you can easily put your exp in your status to see how much you get for a spell with a little math.

Also by seeing the numbers, you get people like me who figure out formulas which definitely ruins a bit of the illusion when you can figure out what spell at what level/power will give what exp then compare it to what the cost of the spell is to optimize training to make sure you get the most exp per dev. (yes I have done this)

As for it being more or less newbie friendly I don't know. I can definately understand why a newbie would like to see the numbers for a better understanding of what works and what doesnt but at the same time what works and what doesn't should be more evident from effect then anything else. If i hit something hard I should get more exp because I'm hitting hard, not because I see the numbers.

Also with exp in prompt it's very easy to write a zmud script to have it pull how much exp you get for anything. I could of written one in the time I took to make this post.

Top
#2036 - 06/05/08 07:30 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Muod]
Minstrel Offline
journeyman
*****

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 89
I'm largely agnostic, but it's completely untrue that you can't figure out combat effectiveness of different weapons without xp messages. You have access to your raw xp. If you can't use that to figure out how well your weapons are working to generate xp...that doesn't say positive things about you.

I agree with Muod that more numbers ruin the illusion. So, while it's not a big deal to me, I'd probably vote against the messages. I'd also vote against the levels of mobs being displayed. That's very ugly-ifying to the atmosphere. Descriptions (long and short) should be trying to paint a word picture, and "behind-the-scenes numbers" spoil that.


Top
#2037 - 06/05/08 07:36 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Minstrel]
Muod Offline
member
*****

Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 148
Loc: MA/CA
People knew what weapons were good for what well before seeing exp but I think candanuca's point of it being helpful to newbies specifically new players is true. Honestly it comes to taste in how we enjoy games, some like the extra numbers and knowing what does what specifically and others like it to be more mysterious.
Top
#2038 - 06/05/08 07:42 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Muod]
Ganelon
Unregistered



I would like to have setenv option so one could chose the level of immersion. Since the raw xp numbers are available anyway having the engine display this data instead of programming the client is just the matter of convenience, especially for newer players.
Top
#2039 - 06/05/08 08:09 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: ]
Candanuca Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 3
What I meant in saying that it was hard to gauge exp in combat was more to the effect of what a specific message on a weapon was. Like does combining ice and fire at *2 make a big difference in the exp I'm getting for those crits versus *4. Not just looking at how much my exp went up after a combat round or two. Sure you can gauge in general which weapon is better but not actually figuring out what components of the weapon are being most useful.

And as Ganelon was getting at, if we can just calculate it anyway it's going to ruin the "magic" for the same people that would want it displayed. At least newbies can see what their looking at instead of vague crit messages.

Top
#2041 - 06/06/08 05:12 AM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Candanuca]
Siani Offline
stranger
****

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Hell
I am for removing the exp messages but with the option of being able to toggle them on/off. Being able to see the exp your gaining is helpful for new players and as we are attracting more of those it would be nice to start out with the messages on and being able to change those settings via setenv.

And as for math and equations....Screw you all I really hope you die irl. >^.^<
_________________________
Ad astra per aspera. - To the stars through rough places.

Top
#2043 - 06/06/08 11:16 AM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Siani]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
Poll closes immediately before next Immortal Call-In meeting. Results won't be displayed until then. If you select "other" as your choice, please post what you mean by that.
Experience Messages
You may choose only one (11 total votes)
No experience gain messages
-
3 27%
Experience gain messages (default off)
-
4 36%
Experience gain messages (default on)
-
4 36%
Experience gain messages (other)
-
0 0%
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
#2044 - 06/06/08 11:23 AM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Candanuca]
Minstrel Offline
journeyman
*****

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 89
 Originally Posted By: Candanuca
What I meant in saying that it was hard to gauge exp in combat was more to the effect of what a specific message on a weapon was. Like does combining ice and fire at *2 make a big difference in the exp I'm getting for those crits versus *4. Not just looking at how much my exp went up after a combat round or two. Sure you can gauge in general which weapon is better but not actually figuring out what components of the weapon are being most useful.


I quite disagree. I never had a problem figuring out the relative importance of various weapon-building components prior to the xp messages. And I wasn't talking about "checking a round or two." That, in fact, is what xp messages are best for...seeing the round-to-round xp.

As for whether the mass of xp messages are helpful to newbies or overwhelming, I'm undecided.

But I would lean to keeping xp messages removed for the sake of atmosphere.


Top
#2047 - 06/07/08 12:07 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Minstrel]
Charon Offline
enthusiast
****

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
If somebody wants to work with the numbers there are a lot of ways to do that.

When I was leveling my monk and discovered I was having a lot of difficulty with magic, I trained completely by the numbers. I ensured that I recieved maximum xp gain for every dev spent.

Muod pretty much perfected my original sheet into including casting skill and multiple casting skills. To make the spreadsheet work the xp for spells and xp mods for the races we were playing had to be calculated but it was really anybody with high-school algebra should be able to figure it out in a few minutes.

I would be ok without even seeing how much xp to level. A percentage indicator (72% to level XX) or even just a description: "You have barely begun the journey to expand your mind" or something.
_________________________
If you say plz because it is shorter than please, then I will say no because it is shorter then yes.

Top
#2048 - 06/07/08 01:46 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Charon]
Minstrel Offline
journeyman
*****

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 89
 Originally Posted By: Charon

I would be ok without even seeing how much xp to level.


Hey, I like that!

I mean, personal xp numbers in one's score report are the whole idea of mudding, IMO. Half of mudding is seeing the numbers changing.


Top
#2072 - 06/17/08 07:43 AM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Minstrel]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
Note has been taken of the general sentiment. No decision has been made as to how to implement this yet, but one will be made soon.
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
#2082 - 06/26/08 11:10 AM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Cerberus]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
Enabling xp messages will be available in the near future. This is a non-binding vote to determine whether or not xp messages are interesting enough to be a draw for in-character interactions. To explain further I will use an example:

"Fyyam the Drow-elf Chaotic-Lord would like to know how much experience she is earning. Following clues written in a dusty tome in her guild hall she discovers a secret entrance into a temple of demons in Kuril. Learning from her guildmaster the name of a particular demon advisor she makes a deal to have that demon inform her of her progress toward greatness every time she learns something."

This vote assumes that you would want to see XP messages somehow, so if you don't want them to be available to anyone ever please don't bother to vote. If you do want them to be available and decide to vote "No", please spend the time to put at least a little blurb about why you would not spend the time to do this or dislike the idea.
XP Messages
You may choose only one
Yes, I would take the time to find and use IC enabling of XP messages
No!


Votes accepted starting: 06/26/08 11:02 AM
View the results of this poll.

_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
#2083 - 06/26/08 05:24 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Cerberus]
Kim Offline
enthusiast
*****

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"Enabling xp messages will be available in the near future."

Why? Is there a goood reason for it? the best reason I have seen is "Uh, I am too stupid to determine what kind of weapon builds are good without them", which is a doh! At least *I* managed to completely redefine what a good weapon build is without them, and the crit messages that came later affected that not one bit.

Top
#2085 - 06/27/08 11:53 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Kim]
carmy Offline
member
****

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 164
Loc: South Korea
Kim, it's not about people being stupid or not stupid. This information is available regardless of how stupid you are. You never needed these exp messages for weapon building, and it's not like it's been in that long, there have been massive changes since it's put in etc, that would merit that statement.

This is a matter of style, and it's a question of whether people want easy access to this information or not.

That having been said, I don't feel anything IC enabling this is a good idea. I never viewed exp as an IC number, so having my GM say "If you wanna know how much exp you're getting go talk to this guy." in any way you want to phrase it, seems kind of funky to me. That's why I voted no.

I don't particularly care if the messages are there, but I think if people want them, they were put in at one point, and they aren't hurting anything, then why not have them available if people want?

Top
#2109 - 07/23/08 02:38 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: carmy]
Siani Offline
stranger
****

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Hell
I also voted no for some sort of IC exp interaction. If anything like that were to be put in I don't think it should give numbers but rather tell you about how many days,weeks,months it will take to get the next level. Kinda like how skillcheck works for devs I guess.

On the other hand I did like the xp messages and it's not because I'm stupid *glares at Kim* but rather because I am lazy. And if when I get a new spell/skill I can toggle something on that's gonna tell me how much xp I am getting and then I can turn it right back off to avoid spam....well by george that would just rock.

So bring it back I say! As an optional tool for us lazy potheads!
_________________________
Ad astra per aspera. - To the stars through rough places.

Top
#2110 - 07/29/08 10:50 AM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Siani]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
Any interest in this if it were to announce after a certain amount of xp gain in a particular type? So for instance, you could see "You have gained 10,000 combat experience." after using weapon A for 15 rounds, and the same message while using weapon B for 20 rounds - you'd note that weapon A was better (or at least, performed better over those rounds) but would still be restricted from seeing exact xp gain per hit/crit/etc.

The same being true for runes/spells. So 10 progress reports for inscribe rune A and 8 for inscribe rune B would show you that inscribe rune B was better for xp. How about if this were settable as a percentage of remaining xp to level? Settable at static amounts in increments of 5000/50000/500000/5000000/etc?
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
#2114 - 07/30/08 02:00 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Cerberus]
Charon Offline
enthusiast
****

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
Since the xp is shown on the score it's *very* easy to figure it out. Also people can put it in their prompt.
_________________________
If you say plz because it is shorter than please, then I will say no because it is shorter then yes.

Top
#2571 - 08/04/12 05:25 PM Re: Exp Display Messaging [Re: Charon]
sabu Offline
journeyman
****

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
How about we use a skill that is already in the game and revamp it, compare. This is an unused skill that caould be very useful if it was able to say not only if it was better then said item but why it was better. Just a thought.
Top
Page all of 2 12>


Hop to:
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Forum Stats
83 Members
33 Forums
333 Topics
2540 Posts

Max Online: 255 @ 06/20/13 12:21 AM

Generated in 0.02 seconds in which 0.001 seconds were spent on a total of 22 queries. Zlib compression disabled.