Who's Online
0 registered and 5 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
Mog, GreenGems, Minzuki, evaker, juffsion
83 Registered Users
Top Posters
608
Cerberus
368
Charon
209
MacTORG
204
Kim
164
carmy
148
Muod
106
Shadowraith
89
Minstrel
88
sabu
49
Rancid
Recent Topics
Page 1 of 1 1
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#294 - 12/04/07 04:36 AM Whirlwind Attack
Kim Offline
enthusiast
*****

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
I have spent... 8281 devs on this skill, and I can still use it only slightly more than half the time, really. Some quick calculations and... this is a lot more expensive than any of the haste spells, even if you count the casting skill needed...

Is it just me, or is 8281 devs (Combat devs, too!) a bit on the high side? It's not like whirlwind is anything exceptional...

I'd suggest that whirlwind capped at 100%, and at 100% you could use it continously... It would still cost over 5,000 devs to get that high, don't worry. \:\)

Or possibly make it so higher whirlwind gave even more attacks... That would make it worth it too \:\)

Top
#1466 - 03/17/08 04:55 PM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Kim]
Charon Offline
enthusiast
****

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
Whirlwind attack is slightly better than haste ;\)

Basically it's a magical ability that was given to guilds without magic ability. I don't think anybody would argue that it isn't worth the devs.
_________________________
If you say plz because it is shorter than please, then I will say no because it is shorter then yes.

Top
#1468 - 03/17/08 05:52 PM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Charon]
Minstrel Offline
journeyman
*****

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 89
 Originally Posted By: Charon
Whirlwind attack is slightly better than haste ;\)

Basically it's a magical ability that was given to guilds without magic ability. I don't think anybody would argue that it isn't worth the devs.


But in terms of power to development points, why should WWA be so unbalanced compared to haste or holy fury? It's a bit better than haste, significantly worse than holy fury and much, much more costly than both and can't be used all the time (haste and fury can be used as continuously as desired).

Fighters and tinkers are haste guilds. They're given a haste effect, it's just made non-magical to fit theme. I don't see the rationale for it being so much more costly than other haste effects relative to its power.



Top
#1469 - 03/17/08 06:41 PM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Minstrel]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
Fighters have innate haste, and tinkers - regardless of their current incarnation - are not combat oriented or haste guilds.

Note that this doesn't mean tinkers will be losing whirlwind.


Edited by Harold (03/17/08 06:42 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot to mention...
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
#1470 - 03/17/08 07:00 PM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Cerberus]
Kim Offline
enthusiast
*****

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"Fighters have innate haste"

Yes, giving 2 attacks per round, the same as AMs (Talking about "not combat oriented or haste guild" haha...), NBs and SMs, and worse than paladins, Clerics, Wps, CLs and Monks.

Whirlwind gets a fighter to 3 attacks (whopee!) basically putting you on equal footing wiht most other combat oriented guilds... At a massively higher cost, and using devs that are actually important, and with a random duration. What is the rationale for that, really? Is there a reason for making it basically impossible to get whirlwind high enough for it to be continous? Is there a reason it's as effective at 1% as it is at 125%? And is there a reason it's based on constitution, and not endurance, or is that just a leftover from old times before the new stats?

Top
#1471 - 03/17/08 07:53 PM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Kim]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
I can't speak to the balance existing at this time, but I'd imagine the fact that haste has been given to Arch-Mages in nearly all games played into it.

3 base attacks is the maximum any player can get to by any means. After combat rounds have been established other effects can increase this - harah lit rune, criticals, extremely high skill, etc. Recently I've done the tests on average attacks per round, and fighters using whirlwind are one of the, if not the single highest average attacks per round.

I've done no checks for duration. Nor have I spent any time determining the effectiveness of skill level for whirlwind attack in particular. If pressed, I would venture a guess that raising skill raising duration is enough of a boost that raising effectiveness further beyond the ceiling for attacks per round was not thought of as important.
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
#1472 - 03/17/08 09:02 PM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Cerberus]
Kim Offline
enthusiast
*****

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"3 base attacks is the maximum any player can get to by any means. After combat rounds have been established other effects can increase this - harah lit rune, criticals, extremely high skill, etc. Recently I've done the tests on average attacks per round, and fighters using whirlwind are one of the, if not the single highest average attacks per round."

Hmmm... It sure doesn't FEEL like it, after going from Paladin to Fighter. But I'll take your word for it. \:\)

"I've done no checks for duration. Nor have I spent any time determining the effectiveness of skill level for whirlwind attack in particular. If pressed, I would venture a guess that raising skill raising duration is enough of a boost that raising effectiveness further beyond the ceiling for attacks per round was not thought of as important."

Well, if 3 attacks is actually the base limit, which I have no reason to doubt if you say so, then I'd agree. Though I dislike the extreme randomness of the duration, and that even after spending 8281 devs on it, I can't use it continously more than... very rarely, if I am lucky. The breaks between uses is still annoyingly long. How many devs would you think reasonable to have to spend to be able to use it continously?

Top
#1474 - 03/18/08 01:19 AM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: Kim]
carmy Offline
member
****

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 164
Loc: South Korea
I can't speak for fighter, but if I have WW attack on with my tinker continuously I just run out of FP right away anyway, it's useful, sure, but continuously isn't always best when I'm in souls for instance.

I don't think the way WW is now is really great, I'm not only talking about the dev cost, the randomness of the skill duration is a little silly imho. If that was cut down, and the duration upped just a little bit, I think it would be fine.

Top
#1475 - 03/18/08 07:29 AM Re: Whirlwind Attack [Re: carmy]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
***

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
I don't expect to see any changes for whirlwind attack in the near future. To be clear, it will be reviewed along side other haste effects but will likely escape with few if any notable differences. Of course this is null if testing reveals something unexpected.
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

Top
Page 1 of 1 1


Hop to:
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Forum Stats
83 Members
33 Forums
333 Topics
2540 Posts

Max Online: 255 @ 06/20/13 12:21 AM

Generated in 0.012 seconds in which 0.001 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression disabled.