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#1185 - 02/01/08 01:49 PM Re: carpentry [Re: carmy]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kim
Well, not good for balance maybe. Unless smaller weapons automatically then made for better to hit/parry.

Unless you want a situation where everybody just goes for the biggest weapon possible.
I'm with Ganelon's assessment on the hit bonus here. If smaller weapons were to get better enhancements from enchantments than larger weapons (as the second idea I regurgitated under the Puissance heading) might it mitigate this effect some?

 Originally Posted By: Kim
And a 2 handed club doing better impaling than a rapier if both have nica bonnes does sound silly to me. Maybe make so runes see what innate crit types a weapon nhave (not counting materil) and then.. add a lot more if innate. A club getting a lot more crushing than a rapier from malsa xen, and reverse for nica bonnes.
I can see using both size and innate damage type as a fair control for damage bonus from runes. A two handed battle axe with a nica bonnes rune should probably be much more likely to cut than a two handed club with the same. The thing I see here though is that the battle axe already has cutting damage whereas the club does not, so it would already be more likely to cut. When you factor in size disparity and out innate damage (a bokken versus a two handed club, say) I think the club should definitely have better cutting (with the premise that more elaborate runes equal more effective runes, of course). The same is true across the board, even with a rapier and a two handed club - so I guess the rapier with the same cutting rune as the two handed club having near equal impaling chance doesn't sound silly at all to me.

Am I making sense, or have I rambled off into oblivion yet? I guess we'd really need some numbers to engage in this discussion effectively. My apologies for that.

 Originally Posted By: Charon
A much more extreme solution would be to add another level of weapon above unsurpassed. Perhaps it would take much more ingots and time (say 10 ingots and 5 hours to forge with a chance of destroying the ingots) and that type of weapon would fully utilize the mineral type by giving a weak TW to the type of crit of the mineral and -TW to all other types. This could also start with 50% wield (again just numbers from my ass) instead of 0% for a blank weapon.
First off, I don't see this as a solution at all. In fact, I see it as damn near a new set of problems. I don't like this idea because it seems to take what were initially solutions to the problem Charon outlines in the start of his post and makes it into an entirely different beast. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't just making any one weapon strictly better than others of the same type going to exacerbate the fact that there are weapon types that are strictly the best (due to dev cost, in this case) rather than temper it?

 Originally Posted By: Charon
Just to add some more variety. Or we could have difficult quests to obtain special materials that would allow for this special forging.

Edit: Perhaps solve a puzzle or defeat some guardian in a multi-person quest like we discussed in another thread to obtain some special rock that hardens the minerals extra hard. I'd propose a limit to how often a particular individual could get of this (so that people don't have storehouses of it) and perhaps even make it require a special location to create the blank or forge it.
On that note... infernal forge, anyone? I think these sorts of specials are a draw for players to an area.
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#1187 - 02/01/08 02:39 PM Re: carpentry [Re: Cerberus]
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 Originally Posted By: Cerberus
First off, I don't see this as a solution at all. In fact, I see it as damn near a new set of problems. I don't like this idea because it seems to take what were initially solutions to the problem Charon outlines in the start of his post and makes it into an entirely different beast.


Yeah, a different beast but if we are going to make significant changes to the weapon system I figured I'd spout out some ideas on how to make it more.. interesting.
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#1190 - 02/01/08 06:22 PM Re: carpentry [Re: Charon]
Kim Offline
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"I'm with Ganelon's assessment on the hit bonus here. If smaller weapons were to get better enhancements from enchantments than larger weapons (as the second idea I regurgitated under the Puissance heading) might it mitigate this effect some?"

Not really. It'd create more problems and make smaller weapons superior again (True Weapon is an enchantment, you know).

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#1874 - 04/28/08 09:28 AM Re: carpentry [Re: Kim]
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This topic seems based entirely on wooden weapons, but since it's named Carpentry I figured this would be an appropriate post. My apologies if it's too far off topic.

I'm interested in seeing the carpentry skill be used for making everyday items like desks (essentially a chest for small items only), chairs (the "rest" or "sit" command making you sit in a chair instead of laying on the floor), and that sort of thing. Does anyone else feel basics like this might be interesting to have as accoutrements for castles/inn rooms?

What if higher skills gave you access to different descriptors instead of being allowed to mark the short description? For instance, at low skill you'd wind up with options for a short description of "rough hewn", "shoddily crafted", "wobbly", or "cheap" to tack on to the front of the item's name (chair, or desk). As skills got higher your options would change - "well-crafted", "elaborately carved", "exquisitely crafted", "smooth-worn", "master-crafted", "bent-wood", etc.

How about if the item's maker had the option to input the long description upon their crafting, and otherwise it would default to one of however many descriptions were available?

Would this be better as features you buy for a castle room, which otherwise wouldn't support the special actions of these items? For instance, marking a room as a 'library' would allow you bookshelves; a 'study' would allow chairs and desks, a 'foyer' would allow couches and lounges, etc. Or is it something that should be skill dependant and can work anywhere it's set down? Or is it something that should be forgotten completely?
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#1878 - 04/28/08 10:01 AM Re: carpentry [Re: Cerberus]
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 Originally Posted By: Harold

Would this be better as features you buy for a castle room, which otherwise wouldn't support the special actions of these items? For instance, marking a room as a 'library' would allow you bookshelves; a 'study' would allow chairs and desks, a 'foyer' would allow couches and lounges, etc. Or is it something that should be skill dependant and can work anywhere it's set down? Or is it something that should be forgotten completely?


More things to use to express yourself (and your environment) the better. I wouldn't forget about this.

I wouldn't say that this is a huge thing. It would be fun. I'd use it. I don't think one should have to "mark" rooms to enable certain things. It feels restrictive...what if I want a bookshelf in my study? Or a desk in my library? It seems like an unnecessary set of restrictions, to enable only certain furniture in certain rooms.

The "library" and bookshelf idea DID get me thinking: What about allowing bookshelves, in castles, that can hold player-made books? Instead of wizards having to hard-code books submitted by Garkin, how about players being able to buy "blank books" (like the blank scrolls that exist) and players can write in them. Perhaps allow functionality for adding pages, where each page acts a bit like scrolls do now. And perhaps make a way to duplicate them (perhaps at a cost...Gutenberg comes to Darke) so that books can be distributed...for free, as a saleable item (if any of us are good enough writers that people would pay mcgrail to read what we produce), whatever.

If the printing press idea is implemented, perhaps make that also a piece of furniture that can be bought or made in a castle. Or not. Just a thought to keep this more on topic.

Books fun.


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#1880 - 04/28/08 03:21 PM Re: carpentry [Re: Minstrel]
Kim Offline
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How about being able to make the obvious thing? Chests. It could require X wood of at least Y size, and an ingot or two. Skill (Carpentry AND blacksmith) would determine how much the chest could hold, and wood/ingot type could decide weight.... And You should be able to featherweight it too. Also, of course, it would be like store chests, without a lock until a lock is installed.

Also, I think fighters should get bash lock back. But bashing the lock on a chest created using Laen should be near impossible, or at least never take less than an hour. Similarly for vault doors.

Oh, on that note, tinker locks should require an ingot to do. Installing using a laen ingot on a vault door = near unbashable. Iron on a wood door = not so impossible.

*rambles on*

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#1882 - 04/29/08 09:15 AM Re: carpentry [Re: Minstrel]
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 Originally Posted By: Minstrel
What about allowing bookshelves, in castles, that can hold player-made books? Instead of wizards having to hard-code books submitted by Garkin, how about players being able to buy "blank books" (like the blank scrolls that exist) and players can write in them. Perhaps allow functionality for adding pages, where each page acts a bit like scrolls do now. And perhaps make a way to duplicate them (perhaps at a cost...Gutenberg comes to Darke) so that books can be distributed...for free, as a saleable item (if any of us are good enough writers that people would pay mcgrail to read what we produce), whatever.


I like this idea a lot actually. Some of the more infamous figures like the Crimson Rose might want to leave detailed reports behind.
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#1885 - 04/29/08 10:55 AM Re: carpentry [Re: Kim]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kim
How about being able to make the obvious thing? Chests. It could require X wood of at least Y size, and an ingot or two. Skill (Carpentry AND blacksmith) would determine how much the chest could hold, and wood/ingot type could decide weight....
Years ago there was a movement by Dinty to start making carpentry relevant through this sort of thing. I see he's still got chests coded, and I'll look into making this possible. He's also got wooden shields and wooden shoes (clogs) concepted - might make these available too.
 Originally Posted By: Kim
And You should be able to featherweight it too.
Featherweight is an armour rune. Opening it to any item would be a) difficult and 2) bad. I would not be for this.
 Originally Posted By: Kim
Oh, on that note, tinker locks should require an ingot to do. Installing using a laen ingot on a vault door = near unbashable. Iron on a wood door = not so impossible.
I agree. Will look into making this happen, but in the mean time does anyone else think this should or should not be the case?
 Originally Posted By: Kim
Also, I think fighters should get bash lock back. But bashing the lock on a chest created using Laen should be near impossible, or at least never take less than an hour. Similarly for vault doors.
There is no mention of why bash lock was removed. There are no comments, though it is clearly commented out. Think this should be in the removals topic for discussion.
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#1887 - 04/29/08 02:16 PM Re: carpentry [Re: Cerberus]
Kim Offline
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"He's also got wooden shields and wooden shoes (clogs) concepted - might make these available too."

Wooden shields is excellent and a near-must. In the olden days, a lot of shields were wood. Sometimes with a leather cover, sometimes with just a small centerpiece of metal. Sometimes pure wood. I think wooden shields should be implemented as soon as possible, really.

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