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by MacTORG
05/22/20 10:22 AM
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#853 - 12/15/07 12:48 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: sabu]
Kim Offline
enthusiast
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Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"So what would you suggest, up the exp needed to level or possibley instead of balanceing out the guilds exp rate. Change the amount needed for each guild. Instead of 1 static amount for everyone."

Buffers.... 500k big, with 20 minutes drain rate... 1.5 million XP/hour seems about right.
3 hours for level 20 to 21
16 hours for level 30 to 31
60 hours for level 40 to 41

400 hours or so from level 1 to 40 in one category. Just under 2 1/2 weeks online time.

*shrugs* Well, probably a bit slower since it takes a little while to reach 1.5 million/hour (some guilds never do). but seems about the right speed to me.

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#856 - 12/15/07 12:58 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Kim]
Gabe Offline
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 18
People already have the option of doing things besides xping. Nobody is forced to xp (using xp as a verb here). It sounds like you're in favor of forcing people to not xp, via the agency of the limiting buffer. At this time, i'm not in favor of limiting options.

In regard to the main point above, i'm hearing that, in short, you don't want people to be able to level as fast as they are able to right now. I don't see high levels as a problem... levels are more-or-less relative anyway, but *if* that opinion is shared by administration, there seems to be a simple solution to slow down levelling while making minimal changes within the game: simply double or triple the base xp required to level. Existing characters get a same-race, same-guild reincarn, and wind up at a lower level. That is... if high levels are really seen as a problem. I don't see them as a problem beyond lack of challenging content, as i said before.

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#857 - 12/15/07 12:59 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Kim]
sabu Offline
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
I would rather see the exp tables changed per guild. Or maybe certain guilds would get a negative modifier. As an example, a fighter killing stuff or a tinker forgeing/runeing stuff is based off of the skill %. It takes a lot more levels to perfect any skill the thief,fighter, or tinker guild has.

Where as almost every 5% skill in any magic skill..magery,enchantement, and so forth gives you more power and costs a lot less to get it from *1 to *6 and you get damn good exp for the spells.

This would be a good reason to have either multiple exp charts or exp mod per class.

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#858 - 12/15/07 01:06 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: sabu]
Kim Offline
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Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"People already have the option of doing things besides xping. Nobody is forced to xp (using xp as a verb here)."

I never said so, did I?

" I don't see high levels as a problem... levels are more-or-less relative anyway, but *if* that opinion is shared by administration, there seems to be a simple solution to slow down levelling while making minimal changes within the game: simply double or triple the base xp required to level. "

Way to completely ignore the MAIN point of some guilds gaining tripple the XP of others, or double.

And that you want levels to be fast and easy is your view. I can't honestly say I respect it, but then again, I do want a bit of a challenge... Not just, create char and be highmortal in a week or two.

"I would rather see the exp tables changed per guild. Or maybe certain guilds would get a negative modifier."

Yes, that would work to balance out XP, I guess.

Of course, that would also quite need a pwipe, unless the option was to make fighter or paladin combat XP the baseline.

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#859 - 12/15/07 01:09 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Kim]
sabu Offline
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
I am for a pwipe, and all I have been hearing on the forums is the classes need balanceing and so on and so forth and it would take soo much work to do. I think if you changed the experience needed per guild to level this would solve most of the problems.
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#860 - 12/15/07 01:24 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Shadowraith]
Llygoden Offline
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Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 9
 Originally Posted By: Shadowraith
If tinker and enchanters were to be combined, it would be at the pwipe, not some time down the road. We might end up going with a totally seperate crafting system in addition to tinker and enchanter guild.


In that case, I don't have any significant opposition to a pwipe, especially if there are changes that may change the the low level experience.
_________________________
Llygoden, Organic Tinker

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#862 - 12/15/07 02:27 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Muod]
Shadowraith Administrator Offline
member
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Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 106
One thing to remember folks. We love this mud too.

You can say this is all Shadowraith's doing, but it really isn't. I was refraining from even suggesting it till some playes thought it might be ok. Then some Admins got behind it.

In the meantime we have had some wizards coming out of the woodwork.

But in the end, I will go with whatever Mac feels is best to make the mud a more fun place to be around. The man has put YEARS of sweat and blood into maintaining this place, from the first when he saved it till now.

A Pwipe, with a look at balance of xp and xp gain rates would give us a lot of opportunities. If you think that everyone will just be high level again in no time, then we did something wrong.

Still, this poll and this thread is providing some incredible feedback, please keep it going.

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#867 - 12/15/07 03:36 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Llygoden]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
addict
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Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
Since we've gotten into a lot of back and forth about a very few number of ideas, I'm going to try and succinctly state what the arguments for and against a pwipe thus far have been.

Everyone seems to be in agreement with this statement:
Pwipe requires a lot of change to be justified.

Some things that have been stated as justifications warranting a pwipe include:
  • xp rates unified
  • crafter guild implemented
  • enchanter/tinker guild changed/removed
  • buffer return
The implication here is that if the way players interact with the system in terms of experience gain is significantly altered there should be a reset of players in order to establish a baseline for all players to begin experience gain again. By this reasoning, a baseline is only important once it has been established that there is an accepted system of advancement from baseline to any given point.

The arguments against a pwipe include that those who play enough to advance in an untimely fashion will advance faster than others anyway, returning Darke to the unhappy-but-familiar state of equilibrium it currently inhabits. This reasoning begs the question "What is an acceptable rate of ascent?" The administration needs player input on this topic to make any reasonable estimate, as it is the players who spend the most time playing the game.

To all of those who are against a pwipe currently: Would you be amicable to a pwipe AFTER a new rate of xp advancement has been established AND tested AND implemented along with any other major changes, just so they can be experienced for a while? Or is there something intrisically flawed about resetting the playing field period?

If there is something that leaves a bad taste in your mouth about the word pwipe alone, regardless of circumstances, what is that something? Is it that time and effort will be lost, or that players who have leveled in obsolete systems are so few that they make no difference to the playerbase on the whole, or that drastic change isn't what's needed if we have a steady influx of newness? Or something else entirely?

This topic is extremely helpful to us as we work toward making Darke a better place - thank you all for keeping the fires burning.
_________________________
Please mail your views on balance to:
cerberus@darkemud.com

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#869 - 12/15/07 04:08 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Cerberus]
Minstrel Offline
journeyman
*****

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 89

Nice summation, Harold.

 Originally Posted By: Harold
To all of those who are against a pwipe currently: Would you be amicable to a pwipe AFTER a new rate of xp advancement has been established AND tested AND implemented along with any other major changes, just so they can be experienced for a while?


This is my position exactly. If a proper overhaul of guild balance is done, please, pwipe away and let's begin the healing.

But short of that, and short of current guilds being deprecated, I don't think there's a compelling reason for a pwipe. A pwipe IS a drastic step, I think. Even though I've cided large characters, it was by choice. Deleting the work of others forcibly can be necessary but should be regarded as a last resort, not a first resort for the sake of "shaking things up."

Right now, I don't think there's anything that warrants a pwipe. Enchanters/tinkers being removed and replaced (not an idea I favour, but that's a different topic) or xp rates changed on a large scale would be compelling, but right now at least, neither seems hugely likely.

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#870 - 12/15/07 06:51 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Minstrel]
carmy Offline
member
****

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 164
Loc: South Korea
As it is, this MUD isn't really designed from a player's standpoint to be a high-end game in the least, but at the same time, there is no content for players that aren't high-end... Does that even make sense, it doesn't make sense as I say it, but it seems to be the reality. It seems like, if you're not HM, there's very little you can do, if you are HM, you run out of things to do other than level some more. I sincerely feel that if there is a limit to exp gain, that in some way would equalize guilds, but the time input by players was awarded with equal gain in the end would be a great change. But, if we're doing this, one must realize that there needs to be some mid level content other than hack and slash.
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