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#806 - 12/14/07 07:15 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Shadowraith]
Llygoden Offline
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Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 9
I haven't voted because I would rather know if the proposed new "trade" system would be going in soon afterward. I enjoy tinking, but it would irk me somewhat to go through the motions again after a pwipe only to find that my tinker guild will be removed to be replaced with the trade system.

In short, I cannot make a decision until I know what's in store for crafting on Darke.
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Llygoden, Organic Tinker

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#807 - 12/14/07 07:48 PM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Llygoden]
Shadowraith Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 106
If tinker and enchanters were to be combined, it would be at the pwipe, not some time down the road. We might end up going with a totally seperate crafting system in addition to tinker and enchanter guild.
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#817 - 12/15/07 05:12 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Azarepth]
carmy Offline
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 164
Loc: South Korea
 Originally Posted By: Azarepth
In the long run, whatever imbalances exist now are going to get worked out as things get fixed up. If we pwipe now, chances are good that new changes will help -some guild- level quicker than others. If a pwipe is the solution now, will it be the solution then too?


No, a pwipe isn't the solution later on. Nobody would want to play if that were the case. There are many proposed changes at the moment, and some of them are impacting the game that a reinc, or a 1/2 reinc or any other options don't seem fair to me. I honestly don't see the problem here, as the people with the most to lose are the ones that are for it for the most part.

What needs to be considered, is that one admin, Nevin, showed up, and made some very serious changes very quickly, and never, at least from a player's perspective, followed through with any of his plans, and kind of left the MUD in some sort of limbo. Because the buffers were removed and some other silly changes, some players were able to level insanely fast. It doesn't seem fair, that because you picked a guild with insane leveling power, you should be able to progress to a point of power 10x more quickly than some other guilds.

I think a pwipe with some of the proposed changes will level the playing field. I'm not saying things are going to be perfect, if they were, we wouldn't need admin at all, now would we? :P

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#828 - 12/15/07 07:17 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: carmy]
Siani Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Hell
I agree with everything Carmy said! I am all for a pwipe since I don't really care so much to have huge chars but I think it only needs to happen if some big changes are put in. Pop in a few areas and figure out whats going to happen with the crafters guild...Or maybe fix moon mages...That would be fun...and then do a pwipe.

I just don't want the crafters guild to become the new monks so take your time coding it up and getting all the good ideas implemented!
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Ad astra per aspera. - To the stars through rough places.

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#835 - 12/15/07 11:00 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Shadowraith]
Gabe Offline
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 18
(Reposting this with some new content, since Shadowraith locked the original thread shortly after it was posted.)

I strongly object to a player wipe. It seems to me that any of these planned changes and expansions can be integrated into Darke mud without having to wipe out the current players.

I'd like to hear some solid reasoning for the *need* to erase other people's hard work in character development. Any person who feels like abandoning their own work and starting over when new changes go in has the same ability that they've always had: rebirth. Personally, i've spent over 3 years developing a character that i enjoy playing and continue to enjoy improving.

One of the advantages that Darke has reaped from extensive, competent coding work, and as a result of having a test server for working out kinks, is a stable foundation that allows for changes to be made without bringing the mud to its knees. Why ignore a huge advantage that having a test server brings? No instabilities will be introduced by merely expanding the current mud content, and allowing current players to continue playing, if everything is properly tested.

That said, i have no strong objection to an equipment and map wipe. I don't necessarily see a need for those, unless there's a concern on the part of admin that some objects exist on live that should not, and the availability of which will be culled.

So, again, why the *need* for a player wipe? High level players have put in a lot of time and effort to get there... i can say that holds true, at the very least, for my self, and i strongly object to watching the fruit of all that hard work just disappear.

The applicable reason i've heard so far is to make the dissolution of the tinker and enchanter guilds, and the creation of the new proposed crafter guild (a combination of the two former guilds), easier. If the new crafter guild actually did go in, it seems that chanter and tinker reincs into that guild be supervised such that former tinkers would have to train tinker skills within the new guild, and former enchanters would have to train enchanting skills within the new guild. Combat skills would be a moot point.

The mud is already on an even playing field, so arguments in that vein seem like falsely-rationalized or veiled desire to rip off people who have put the time in to get big.

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#836 - 12/15/07 11:21 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Gabe]
Kim Offline
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Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"The mud is already on an even playing field, so arguments in that vein seem like falsely-rationalized or veiled desire to rip off people who have put the time in to get big."

Except it isn't even. The huge imbalances in XP ghain is the big reason for a Pwipe to me. *if* those were fixed (there are some easy solutions), I can't see there not being a pwipe. The unfairness of, say, Arii or Pyrax keeping their levels, which no-one could then theoretically catch is quite obvious.

I mean, unnless the XP solution included doubling or trippling the XP of certain guilds. But I see that as a silly solution. There is too much XP for most guilds already...

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#837 - 12/15/07 11:32 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Gabe]
Gabe Offline
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 18
Regarding the perceived problem with potential xp gain differential between guilds:

This is an issue that has been in existence ever since the CMS system was put in, some people have raised hell about it (myself included), and the existing mud admin chose to leave it as it was. That said, i doubt the issue is as big as some people have painted it to be. The only major imbalance that i recall offhand is the potential gain of players in the thief guild in the S category, and that imbalance has been corrected (?) from what i understand.

Other than that one, perhaps people who cite this differential as a reason should be specific, rather than merely saying that such a problem exists.

Overall, i think some effort does need to be put in to balancing potential xp gain amongst guilds, but that is a separate, longstanding issue, which is *not related* (read that again) to the changes which have been proposed of late.

Personally, i was happy to see the xp buffers go, even though my main character derived zero benefit from the removal (was already beyond their affect, being of high level already).

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#838 - 12/15/07 11:40 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Gabe]
Kim Offline
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Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
" The only major imbalance that i recall offhand is the potential gain of players in the thief guild in the S category, and that imbalance has been corrected (?) from what i understand."

For combat, the low end (non-haste guilds) is at maybe 1.5 million per hour. High end would be fighters and paladins who can get upwards of 10 million... And all otehr guilds in between at different ranges.

S and M are the same as far as this is concerned. The low end is at 1 million or so (tinker, fighter), the high end not counting thieves is over 2 million... 2.3-2.5 (necromancers, AMs, CLs). With all other guilds being someplace inbetween (enchanters at about 1.35 million, Paladins 1.7 or so).

"Personally, i was happy to see the xp buffers go, even though my main character derived zero benefit from the removal (was already beyond their affect, being of high level already)."

If the buffers went back in, with a static 1 million/hour, it would affect your main character and well, every character. This is a change that would quite require a pwipe.

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#839 - 12/15/07 11:43 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Kim]
Gabe Offline
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 18
in reply to Kim's post: The only major issue (that i know of) was the one in the thief guild. I don't think there are even a lot of players who took advantage of it... though i know there were a few. Now that it's been corrected, i don't think it's that big an issue. Specifically, it's definitely not an issue the other players should have to pay the price for.

Arii has a big character, but she's also put in a *huge* amount of time getting there.

Why is the current xp rate available to the more well-off guilds a problem? I don't see a problem with having high level characters, beyond the mud-wide issue of not having content available to challenge those players, and it is possible to design content to challenge those players. I think that some is even in the works.

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#842 - 12/15/07 11:46 AM Re: Pwipe Vote: Please vote on the options below [Re: Kim]
Gabe Offline
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 18
The idea for a static cap in xp gain... what's the point? Do people want to limit how high a player can get? If so, why??

The only reason i see is lack of mud content, which is a creative issue.

If people want to get big, let them.

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