mathias
(newbie)
11/12/07 08:31 PM
Skills/spells lists

I think it would be a very helpful tool if the website had the skills and spells that were available to each guild. I know that most guilds have skill lists and spell lists posted on their boards but you have to be in that guild to see it. I find that is feels more like work than playing a game to create a char join a guild, just to see what cool things i might be able to create a character to do, then suicide, create a char for another guild, etc.

Muod
(member)
11/14/07 03:06 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

I agree entirely, i've compiled my own list because there was no easy way without always asking people or joining the guild. Would be great to sync it to the mud so if it changes there it'll update on web.

carmy
(member)
11/14/07 04:18 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

I dunno, I'd be perfectly happy with a more elaborate description of each guild without posting every skill/spell each guild has. Then again, by now I have a pretty good idea of what each guild has before I join and I didn't have that option when I started playing and everything turned out fine. Frankly, I found it rather more amusing not knowing what I might get :P

Muod
(member)
11/15/07 03:38 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

like when making a monk...make a monk and find out they suck.

carmy
(member)
11/16/07 03:23 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

Monks are the exception to every rule mind you. It's surprising they haven't been removed.

Muod
(member)
11/16/07 04:11 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

well supposedly they are being fixed, i dont believe it and it should just be removed, they are so bugged, i mean i found some seriously abusable bugs, if i was not such a good person i would of abused to no end.

Charon
(enthusiast)
11/16/07 08:18 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

Well.. I think we all remember when I was playing Oskar.

The only HM I've ever cided not because I was bored but because the guild was too frustrating to play.

I kept track and every spell over level 8 had at least one bug that I found in the first day of getting it. Some were fixed, one spell was removed to be fixed (over a year ago), and some bugs I didn't even catch and were noticed by other people.. in the same spells!

There is a lot of room for abuse in that guild but even if you DO abuse all the bugs you still can't level magic decently at all.

Although I think we've discussed privately Muod how the guild could be playable with 3-4 very easy changes ;\)


Muod
(member)
11/16/07 08:39 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

indeed, from all the bugs i've seen in the guild none let you level magic well at all, as a magic guild its really poorly done and easily makes the lowest exp of any guild. but I think it should just be removed, there is no one around now that has time to fix it even though would be easy to fix.

Charon
(enthusiast)
11/16/07 12:17 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

I dunno. If somebody spent 20 minutes on it, it would be a lot better. The changes I think were:

1. Merge fist art and chi attunement.
2. Remove chi attunemtn as prereq for the other casting skills.
3. Fix a couple of bugs in the spells.

That there would probably make the guild playable.. not GOOD, but playable.


Muod
(member)
11/16/07 12:35 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

yep, thats exactly what i came up with too, the fact that chi is prereq to yin or yang is soo retarded, and fist art has like 5 spells over 125% which is very dumb, doesn't help the spells are useless. I would also adjust the cost of some of the spells. some are really high and for spells that arn't useful or even work right.

Ruck
(stranger)
11/26/07 01:40 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

IMO, not having a list of all spells/skills to a guild is a good thing. It would take the mystery and fun out of the guild if you knew everything about it already. Once your’e in the guild, having a posting on the board by another member is entirely worthwhile though, in terms of training/etc. But if you let everybody on the outside know all of your guild secrets, then they can use them against you.

Muod
(member)
11/26/07 03:40 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

right...like guilds have such critical secrets that people are able to use them against the player for some advantage. if you know of some, do let me know.

Charon
(enthusiast)
11/28/07 08:40 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

Like the level 40 elementalist spell that destroys the mud?

Muod
(member)
11/28/07 05:19 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

shh we arn't suppose to talk about that.

CerberusAdministrator
(addict)
11/29/07 11:33 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

As I'm sure some of you are already aware, I'm a big fan of the larger picture. In this case, we may be better served by simply linking the newbie faq on the darkemud web page main site to the help files in the mud folder so they update automatically. Then it becomes a matter of what appears in the help files reflecting accurately what we wish to portray.

For instance, the monk guild doesn't have a help file at all if you go by the web site's listing. Sylphs aren't an elemental race, or any race for that matter, and there's simply no mention of what I assume are roleplay races like shadowcat. I propose that the web page update as entire directories of mud information rather than wait to be synchronized by hand.

Further, if we're unhappy with the state of affairs when it comes to how each guild is displayed, we should be looking into why:

1) Is the flavor description of a guild's purpose too nebulous? - take for example, the web help listed for cleric of risla (I won't reproduce it, but I will reference it, so you can find the full file here: http://www.darkemud.com/darke/text/guilds/cleric-of-risla.html), which apart from having a number of misspellings (most notably - "damageing" and "ressurrection") also states that the Cleric's primary examples are none (could we be using Friar Tuck, Vampire Hunter D, Van Helsing, or the Brothers Grimm?), and that the primary spells they work in are "damageing" and "ressurrection" (when in actuality there are two, maybe three resurrection type spells if you include deus ex machina; damage spells are similiarly limited in scope, while healing spells include the harm-style spells).

b) Are new Darkemudders unable to decide if they'd like a guild based on the flavor in the help file? - for instance, take the thief's guild help file (http://www.darkemud.com/darke/text/guilds/thief.html and yes, I know the guild as a whole is a contentious topic, but stick with me here) which is fully misleading. A thief is no less likely to wear heavy armour than a fighter, simply because there is no penalty to dexterity based skills or stats. *hmm a topic for another thread maybe?* If I were to be interested in a sneaky, purse-slitting, hide-in-shadows-while-tracking someone type I'd be disappointed in the rogue's guild, as it's ironically (read as: vagabond! Sucka!) referred to in the very obviously outdated help file.

3) Are the iconic sets of what it means to be a/an -insert guildname here- being adequately portrayed? This question basically includes both previous questions, and could be alleviated with the simple addition of a new line: "Iconic Traits". Here is where we'd tell people that Necromancers create the (mighty?) Dracolich - an undead dragon of epic proportions. Where an enchanter's True spells would be described - bringing a piece of weaponry or armour from mere greatness to truely legendary ability. Where the Chaotic Lord's Demon Lords would be touted as the pinnacle of wretched doom, and the like.

Perhaps a list of every skill and spell available at every level would be less than exciting in discovering a new guild. I for one think it would be, but I also think there is an extremely large space for design and upgrade in terms of information. Even making the help files from some guild-specific skills or spells available to non-guildmembers would not be going too far (presuming that the help files are for widely recognized skills - forge weapon, for instance, or enchanter mark, or whatever makes a guild more interesting without selling it up the river)


Kim
(enthusiast)
11/29/07 12:23 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

"Perhaps a list of every skill and spell available at every level would be less than exciting in discovering a new guild."

I do agree... When I started as an enchanter, there was real excitement in getting the new spells and learning and finding out.

Help files that said... something useful at all might be fun though \:\)


Muod
(member)
11/29/07 06:44 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

heh, yea, when i played an AM it took me forever to figure out good ways to use delay/store and link, which made it all that much more fun and rewarding. so i wouldn't like ot see a list online but rather have people interact to learn stuff.

CerberusAdministrator
(addict)
12/04/07 02:52 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

How do you guys feel about providing certain iconic, example, or guild-defining skills and spells as help files for a guild? If you read the fighter's help file and it says they're the best at fighting, "often times attacking half a dozen times in the same span of time that the average person could attack once!" (or whatever the newbie book will say) that referenced 'help skill whirlwind attack' (and obviously, the claims made in the help files should reflect what people have discovered in use... http://www.darkemud.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=294#Post294)

It would keep most of the discovery, but allow new users to actually see some of what they'd be working toward if they were in the guild. I'd say 2-3 skills/spells per guild, max?


Kim
(enthusiast)
12/04/07 03:33 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

Something like that would be neat. Though the example isn't quite... right \:\)

Charon
(enthusiast)
12/04/07 06:18 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

I was planning on putting a couple of interesting spells/skills into the newbie help guide.

For example thieves I would put a blurb about herbal lore (potions) and pick locks.

Archmages: dranaxar's antimagic field, link.

For example.. not saying those specifics... but stuff like that.


CerberusAdministrator
(addict)
12/05/07 11:47 AM
Re: Skills/spells lists

I like that idea since it will allow players who might not like the guild's descriptors to see some of the powers they may eventually have available to them. Two would probably be the best number of examples, with one being the iconic sort that everyone trains because you're not a/n <insert guildname here> without it. The other should be something that might be underappreciated, unique, or (in the minds of the contributors) something that needs a real good looking-over by the administration (who will undoubtedly read the newbie guide before publishing it).

mathias
(newbie)
12/10/07 05:00 PM
Re: Skills/spells lists

heh so no go for those of us that are character micro-managers and try to maximize/minimize qualities of a character by know where a guild ends up.

I agree with the powerful descriptors approach though. That would have really helped me out choose guilds when i first started playing so many years ago