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#1592 - 03/26/08 07:00 AM Re: Lock Activation [Re: Madoc]
Ganelon
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While you are at I was wondernig if it would be possible to adjust the lock activation limit somehow... Like allow locks to activate if "new_wield <= max(enchantment_hard_limit, your_main casting_skill) && new_wield - temp_spell_weild <= enchantment_hard_limit" where main casting skill would be a per-guild setting.

What I am trying to say that it is silly that I can place demons on top of locks but not the other way around.

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#1596 - 03/26/08 04:07 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: ]
Muod Offline
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Registered: 10/04/07
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you can have demons and locks on same wepaon and still activate the locks, you just have to not use fully chanted weapon
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#1598 - 03/26/08 05:51 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: Muod]
Ganelon
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I can use demons and locks on a fully enchanted weapon as well as long as I activate locks before putting demons on. Since the end result is the same current restriction does not add anything except inconvenience.
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#1602 - 03/26/08 06:55 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: ]
Minstrel Offline
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Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 89
 Originally Posted By: Ganelon
I can use demons and locks on a fully enchanted weapon as well as long as I activate locks before putting demons on. Since the end result is the same current restriction does not add anything except inconvenience.


The end result isn't the same. Activating locks first means you have to have much higher casting skill to put more spells on top.

One can debate whether or not you should have to have such casting skill, but there is a big difference between activating before or after adding additional spells.


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#1603 - 03/26/08 07:16 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: Minstrel]
Ganelon
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Right, and if you look at the formula I proposed above it does require a repson to have such a casting skill so balance-wise there is no change, just more convenient.
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#1604 - 03/26/08 09:52 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: ]
Minstrel Offline
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Registered: 12/14/07
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 Originally Posted By: Ganelon
Right, and if you look at the formula I proposed above it does require a repson to have such a casting skill so balance-wise there is no change, just more convenient.


Good point, I missed that. I thought you meant there was no difference as things are.


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#1605 - 03/27/08 08:01 AM Re: Lock Activation [Re: Minstrel]
Charon Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
I think the lock activation of 220% is pretty generous really. It used to be 150% and most people could still make some pretty sick weapons. It's been raised 70%!! That's a BIG raise.

I understand how you'd want to always be able to stack more and more on top. What I think would be a better solution and more fair would be if locks activated at the same skill as the person whom the lock was borrowed from.

If you borrowed it from a SM with 100% magery that particular lock would only activate up to 100%. If you borrowed from a necromancer with 280% necromancy it would work up to that limit.

The thing is that the order how things happen on a weapon does matter and it matters for a reason because different people have different casting abilities. If we change it so that locks always pretend like they go first, why not change it so that regular blade spells work the same way? I'll give you a real shadowlands example.

I have a sword-mage. If I want some extra plasma I can get an elementalist to put on some plasma blades. Let's say we both have 150% skill but to stack on what I want would push the weapon up to 180% wield. So both of us could put our spells on it just fine, just not at the same time. If the elementalist had 180% skill however I could cast my spells first then he could cast his. What you're suggesting is that it shouldn't make a difference who goes first (a lock is a 'casted' spell for all practical reasons').

You say there is no change balance-wise but there is a VERY big change balance wise. Let's examine the 2 cases:

1. Chaotic-lord with insane elemental chaos with demon lord sword on top, ALL the time making the weapon totally broken super crazy good.

2. Chaotic-lord with insane elemental chaos with demon lords on top 25% of the time making the weapon super crazy good, but 75% of the time only crazy good.

This makes it more selective as to when you get the extra boost instead of it just being always. Also you COULD just rotate weapons so that if you do need the extra boost you can grab a weapon, activate some locks and go nuts.

I don't think this change is as much a non-issue as you are trying to make it, in fact I think it makes a very HUGE issue don't you think?
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#1608 - 03/27/08 10:45 AM Re: Lock Activation [Re: Charon]
Ganelon
Unregistered



I am not saying that it does not matter who goes first in general case, I am just saying the when you try to activate lock it should at _your_ casting ability (in addition to the current limit) to determine whether this lock can be activated. And it is done exactly because I can achieve the same result just arranging cast and lock activation in a particular order, so the end result is the same. And I don't really need to rotate blades that much, I can reduce demon power and stack 2 of them instead to match the timing of locked spells. All in all it is just an inconvenience.

I guuess the difference between your SM example and mine is that in my case I can achieve the "harder" task of putting my spells on top of locks, whereas in your example your hypotetical character can't.


Edited by Ganelon (03/27/08 10:57 AM)
Edit Reason: More data

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#1610 - 03/27/08 12:59 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: Charon]
Cerberus Administrator Offline
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Registered: 11/28/07
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Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
 Originally Posted By: Charon
What I think would be a better solution and more fair would be if locks activated at the same skill as the person whom the lock was borrowed from.
This is the logical route, and probably what should've been done to start. As it stands though this would generally result in most locks activating at 150 skill at most, and would cause rioting in the streets.

Since it seems there is a workaround available for demons on locked weapons, I would recommend taking this route until such a time as there is a new system for lock activation implemented. I appreciate the frustration felt with the hard ceiling that currently exists with locks but until they're reviewed we won't be making any drastic changes. In other words, keep belting out ideas for how we might tackle the problems players are facing with lock activation and we'll have a more complete data set to work with when we begin reviewing them.

Just don't expect the lock limit's hard cap to be pushed to 300 and left alone to be the fix.
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#1611 - 03/27/08 01:02 PM Re: Lock Activation [Re: ]
Charon Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
The example was to illustrate that order matters.

YOUR casting skill has nothing to do with the lock casting skill for a reason.

Let's do it another way. What if I'm a SM with a sword that has 120% magery and 180% wield. My weapon has a ton of locks. I can put some blade spells onto it then activate the locks.

What if my blade spells expire first.. should my effective skill be the higher of my skill or the lock limit (220%). Technically I could rotate through swords and always have all the spells on right?

The only difference is I'd have to wait for the locks to expire, cast mine back on then reactivate the locks.
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