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#334 - 12/05/07 07:19 AM Hypothesis - Classless Darke
Shadowraith Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 106
Ok...

First up, this is nothing more than thinking out loud. Gathering thoughts and feelings of those who currently play. So do not think this is coming or dread it or eagerly anticipate it. It is merely us having a nice discussion about a possibility.

That being said, there is a poll attached to this message, so please vote about how you feel about this as a whole.

So...

One of the main problems with any online game (graphical or mud) where there are classes is the forever rallying cry, "They are stronger than me, nerf them". Balance becomes a nightmare and everyone always gets that "grass is greener" symptom sooner or later. It's even worse in a world like Darke where each person is only allowed one character.

So what do we think if Darke became a classless world?

There would have to be things worked out of course, but some of the pro's and con's are:

PROS
1. You can choose to be what you want to be. A mage can swing a sword if he wants, and do it really well. Just takes time and dev investment.
2. Balance becomes MUCH easier, because modifying a skill or spell balances it for everyone at once.
3. You can allow for "respecs", at some penalty of course, where you can restart your life or redo your skills without having to start over or go on haitus.
4. Similiar skills can be easier to learn, making people who choose to focus on magic better at it than those who want to be a jack of all trades. Of course the Jack, with enough time and effort, can become just as good, just would take longer.

CONS
1. Some people like having their class laid out for them.
2. Everyone would reset. Noone wants a PWipe, which would be ideal, so there would need to be a conversion process.
3. Some people will try to min/max the system, but with balance easier, might be easier to make more skills/spells valid.

It was the Summon spell debate that got me thinking about this. If everyone had access to it, its problematic nature drops sharply.

Anyway, give me your thoughts. Lets have a nice discussion. And don't panic \:\) This is just us thinking of ways of livening up the mud and getting a bigger player base for all to have fun with. We have a great foundation and we can do a lot of things with it.

SW
Classless Darkemud
You may choose only one
Stongly prefer
Mildly Prefer
No Opinion
Mildly Dislike
Strongly Dislike


Votes accepted starting: 12/05/07 07:18 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.


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#336 - 12/05/07 07:39 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Shadowraith]
sabu Offline
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
I think this would be good for a start. Then people would start bitching about this or that and then it would probably end back to where it was. There have been multiple changes to this place where it was good for 2-3 monthes and then dropped back to the way it was.
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#337 - 12/05/07 07:42 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Shadowraith]
Charon Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
I personally think that it would be an interesting experiment and pretty easy to test out.

I'm not 100% sure but I imagine it could be as simple as:
1. Start up a second copy of darke (much like war)
2. Set all guilds to 100/100/100 devs, or 75/75/75 or whatever.
3. Remove the check from the guild train rooms that checks what guild you are.

The only problem is that some guilds would overlap a lot and some skills (magery!) would become essential to every player.

I don't think I'd want to see that happen to live though. A conversion would be very tricky and a pwipe usually doesn't collect new players.

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#340 - 12/05/07 08:12 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Charon]
Shadowraith Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 106
Well,

We wouldnt pwipe persay. I don't think anyone wants that. More a conversion of old point to equivelent level new points

Your suggestion to test it would be the easiest way. But there are balance checks and such that would have to happen as well. Plus the whole multiplier part so that your cost changes based on what you already know. (so studying a single branch remains easier than multiple branches)

Also the question comes up is it just one pool of devs? Or do you keep seperate CMS

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#341 - 12/05/07 08:18 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Shadowraith]
sabu Offline
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
I find it kind of funny, if there was going to be a big change like this and no pwipe done. I could see a lot of old players that have huge charecters to hiatus and then build a charecter to test crap out first. I almost think it would be a bad thing not to pwipe due to the fact their would be a lot of older players here that would just create the uber charecter and rule the mud.
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#344 - 12/05/07 08:22 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: sabu]
Shadowraith Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 106
That's a valid concern sabu, but also valid is the players who have stuck around since the last pwipe not wanting to lose all their work and effort.
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#347 - 12/05/07 08:34 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Shadowraith]
Kim Offline
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Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
"We wouldnt pwipe persay. I don't think anyone wants that. More a conversion of old point to equivelent level new points"

I wouldn't mind a pwipe, and I would think it necessary. Currently guilds are very unbalanced when it comes to gaining levels, so a conversion would be inherently unfair.

Then again, I have rebirthed more highmortals than the rest of the mud combined \:\)

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#348 - 12/05/07 08:46 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Kim]
sabu Offline
journeyman
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
I am just not sure about a change like this. Being that the tinkers just got a major revamp, and now there is talks of doing this. I just don't like it. I still think there are too many other issues to deal with than this.

Need more mob areas to kill crap. killing sailors,marines and watchman over and over again is insanity.I know there are other areas out there, but they are almost a waste of time to get too. Escpecially if you die.

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#349 - 12/05/07 08:53 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: sabu]
Kim Offline
enthusiast
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Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Europe
Oh, and furthermore... I like the basis of Darke as is.. That change would be essentially making a completely new mud (again). I would much prefer it if it was a separate server.

One drawback is the number of "must train" spells. If somebody didn't train iron will or indomitable spirit, they wouldn't be competitive at all.

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#350 - 12/05/07 09:00 AM Re: Hypothesis - Classless Darke [Re: Kim]
sabu Offline
journeyman
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 88
Loc: wisconsin
I guess the other thing is, you would almost have to throw out CMS due to the fact that per say a tinker would only have level 6 worth of devs to train with for magic. I know it would be the same for the magic guilds and such. The the fighter, thief and tinker guilds would almost be handcuffed in a CMS environment. More so then the magic useing guilds due to the fact that there isn't really any powerful or over the top skills that the special tree gives. And they wouldn't have a pool of magic devs to start with.
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